You today by your television provider. And i come here tonight to the alsmith dinner knowing im the underdog in these final weeks. If you know where to look, there are signs of hope, theres signs of hope, even in the most unexpected places, even in this room, full of proud manhattan democrats, i cant i cant shake that feeling that some people here are pulling for me. Im delighted to see you here tonight, hillary. I was thrilled to get this invitation. And i feel right at home here because its often been said that i share the politics of alfred e. Smith and the ears of alfred e. Newman. It is an honor to be here with al smith. I obviously never knew your great grandfather but from everything that senator mccain has told me the two of them had a great time together before prohibition. So of course i am delighted. But not surprised by the final repeal of the 18th amendment. I felt all along that when this matter was properly submitted to the rank and file of our people they would readily see that it had no place in our constitution. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to estimate the benefit that would come to this country from the lesson taught to the coming generations, to make it their business to see that no such matter as this is ever again made the subject of federal constitutional law. And youve been listening to the 2008 president ial nominees talking at that years annual Al Smith Dinner followed by al smith himself talking about the lifting of prohibition in 1933. Hello and welcome to cspans the contender series. We come to you live tonight from the new York State Assembly chamber in albany, new york where contender al smith served for 12 years before being elected governor and becoming the democratic nominee for president in 1928. Our guest for the next two hours, as we relive the 1928 president ial election, and the life and career of al smith, john evers. He is the former historian for the new York State Assembly, and he is a ph. D. Candidate at suny albany, and doing his dissertation on al smith. And also joined by beverly gage, professor gage, set the scene for us to begin. 1928, the United States, what was going on in this country, what were smfs issues that were going to be discussed in the 1928 election . The 1928 election is one of the most interesting and also one of the most vicious elections in American History. We have two candidates who, i think, really embody two different sorts of americas that are coming into conflict in the election. So we have al smith whos the subject tonight. Al smith is urban. Hes from new york city. Hes an irishman. He is catholic. And he represents a kind of immigrant urban america that has come of age in the last 30 years. On the other side is our republican candidate in 1928 we have Herbert Hoover who in many ways could be from midwest, from iowa, straight laced, distinctly nonurban, he is pious. He wears starchy collars and these two men in 1928 as they go up for the president ial election really encapsulate some of the most important cultural and political clashes of that moment, clashes over prohibition, to some degree clashes over the economy. But in many ways this turns out to be really a cultural election that hinges on which of these two americas is the america thats going to be voted into office . Its been said that the three ps influenced this election in 1928. Prohibition, prejudice and prosperity. Right, i think the three ps really do capture it. On prohibition we have al smith who is one of the nations most outspoken opponents of prohibition. Prohibition has been in effect by 1928 for almost a decade. And it has been a real problem for most of that time. And throughout al smith, like many urban politicians, has said that its a bad idea, not only because it infringes on americans freedom, but because its causing a Law Enforcement crisis and there are many people who are quite concerned about this by 1928. So whats going to happen to prohibition is certainly one of the Big Questions we have Herbert Hoover on the other side. In terms of prosperity, as you might imagine, both of them are running in favor of prosperity. The problem for al smith is that youve had eight years of republican rule in the presidency by that point, first Warren Harding and then followed by calvin coolidge. The republicans sort of have a leg up on the prosperity front. Youve had the 1920s. Its been a boom decade, certainly for wall street, for large segments of the economy, although less for farmers and agriculture at that point. So thats our second p. And i think the darkest part of this election and the reason i said it really is one of the most vicious elections in American History is this is our third p, is the question of prejudice. And al smith, i think most americans today are probably more familiar with john kennedy as a catholic candidate and even in 1960 that causing a real stir, a real set of questions about the presidency. But al smith raised all of those questions much earlier in 1928 which already had been a decade that had been seized with a lot of questions about immigration, Immigration Reform, the rise of the ku klux klan and those come into play in his candidacy. John evers, the role of catholicism in the 1928 election, how did it play out . It was a Vicious Campaign and smith was not this was not new to him. When he ran in new york state to be governor of new york state he faced it then. In fact, in 1914 martin glen, who was assumed the office of governorfaced anticatholic prejudice. The constitution convention, a whispering campaign. Smith went into this a full year, four years or so in advance of the election, knowing that this would be an issue. In fact, he addressed this issue in 1927 in his reply to the Atlantic Monthly discussing why a catholic man could be president which was a very good statement, although it was intellectual. It went over everybodys heads and didnt help his campaign. As you mentioned earlier we are in the new York State Assembly chamber in albany, new york in the New York State Capitol Building finished in 1894. We also have pleased to have join us a studio audience of albany area residents, some college students, some historians, some interested in al smith folks here and theyll also have a chance to ask some questions of our two guests about al smith in the 1928 election. As will you and were going to put the phone numbers up on the screen. Were not going to take phone calls for a little while but were going to put them up sont screen so you can dial in now. This is the sixth in our 14week series, the contenders, the focus 1928 election and al smith. 2027370001. In the east and central time zones 2027370002. If you live in the mountain or pacific time zones. John evers, what kind of a candidate was al smith in 1928 . He was a fighter. If you look at him and you see the short stature and the pugnaciousness of him, his gravelly voice, of course, comes out, all across america, this is one of the first campaigns where radio plays a role. He campaigns from the back of trains, which is very common. He tries to engage issues that are important to americans. They didnt want to talk about those issues, prosperity was there, he couldnt talk about issues and say im the candidate of prosperity, that was a Republican Party. He wanted to talk about water power, talk about prohibition which was unheard of but he came out as a fighter. His speeches were well reasoned. On paper he was a fantastic candidate. But he just was swimming uphill the whole time. Beverly gage, electoral vote count, 444 for Herbert Hoover, 87 for al smith. What states did he win and why . It was definitely a blowout election and i think the real i mean, in some ways we can almost say so al smith, maybe he should thank his lauky stars he did not, in fact, win the 1928 election and that Herbert Hoover, we might remember al smiths name a little more but what would we remember him for . Yeah, it was really one of these blowout elections and i think it was really heartbreaking for smith and smiths supporters in part because it had been such a Nasty Campaign and one of the Big Questions of the election ultimately became, you know, was it prosperity . Was it simply the fact that republicans could take credit for this boom decade and therefore smith really never had a chance . Or was it a rejection of all the things that smith really felt deeply and that he stood for . And i think smith really took that to heart. He was very concerned about that and the real the real nastiness of that campaign. So he had some support but not a whole lot. Theres a fourth p i want to talk about, and thats progressivism. Al smith was known as a progressive during his time in the legislature, as governor. Did that play an issue at all and how were progressive politics identified back in this era . Right, well progressivism when you think about it as a historical phenomenon, you think about it as a turn of the century phenomenon, really begins around 1900, say Teddy Roosevelt is our pioneer progressive and what it means by the 1920s is very hard to define in many ways. There were people who called themselves progressives who supported prohibition. And who were very impassioned about it. There were people who called themselves progressives who opposed prohibition, like al smith and who were also very impassioned about it. But the basic idea of progressivism was a sense that had come about and that al smith really did stand for, that you could use government in new and sort of proactive ways to deal with some of the really pressing social and industrial conditions that americans faced back in the early part of the 20th century. And al smith has governor and then running as a candidate for president really tried to make that case. I mean, he changes his mind a little bit later when the new deal comes alone and well get to that probably. So that was really the basic idea of progressivism was the idea that you could use federal power in some significant way to really change peoples lives for the better. John evers. I think thats a key point about smith is, we talk about the new deal today. And we talk about all the programs, the Social Security issues, all the things that fdr brought in. When smith ran for president he had experimented with all these things in new york state. He was a champion of the labor issue. He was a champion of hydro electric power, he was a champion of parks and recreation, one that wanted to spend money for the social programs of new york state and they were all forerunners of the new deal. When he ran in 1928 people didnt want to hear that issue. It was overclouded by prosperity. It was a whispering campaign about his religion. It was this unknown politician that had this thick new york accent that came out to the farm country. Even smith when he campaigned. In fact he had one funny story he was driving on the train through wyoming and they were about an hour out and he sees a horse out in the field and says to somebody we must be getting close to civilization, theres a horse there and the guy said no, thats a woiild horse, weve go about an hour ago. He was really used to new york and i think the country was used to somebody eastern a new yorker. They were used to that prosperity, the calvin coolidge, the Warren Harding and Herbert Hoover. If you were elected governor in new york back at that time were you a shooin or an automatic for consideration on the National Stage . Absolutely. Al smith was nominated and it was always the favorite son candidacies. But when the first balloting happened in 1920 they nominated al smith for governor or for president. In 1920. It went one round and they dropped the votes and eventually it was cox from ohio. But in 1924 they really went out for smith. It was in new york city and it was 103 ballots and he has to withdraw and they had a compromise candidate who was also a new yorker. In 1928 he win it is nomination. But all through history the new york governor and this is even in modern history the new york governor is automatically considered president ial material. If you look at the people that have run and won and those that have run and lost youll see new yorkers all through history. Go ahead. I was going to jump in there, yeah, i think its new york was an incredibly important, two key political states at that moment. New york was one of them and ohio was the other one. They just kept producing president after president. And i dont think we really have states quite like that anymore, maybe we could look to Something Like texas. But its also not just within the Democratic Party. I mean, you see when you look at the Republican Party you see Teddy Roosevelt and Charles Evans hughes, all of these figures coming out of new york politics and when you look at the Democratic Party you see al smith and Franklin Roosevelt. New york as a state has two machines, really going and it has a pretty Significant National effect. Two machines . Well, of course the famous machine is really the taminy machine but the republicans had an incredibly powerful network as well. What is taminy hall . Its technically just the new york city Democratic Party. The manhattan Democratic Party. But the hall from the mid19th century was best known as the machine of machines in urban america. So it was identified as primarily irish machine, a machine in new york that really depended on neighborhood power, word power and that was as much about sort of taking care of your neighborhood and coming up through the neighborhood as it was anything really about National Politics. But taminy absolutely the most powerful force, certainly in new york City Politics at that moment but really in new york state Democratic Politics as well. John evers, how did taminy hall fit into the 1928 election . That was the brush that painted smith into a corner. We talk about the religion issue. But this started at the convention in 1928. I mean, taminy hall would go to the conventions and they always had new york was a key state and they would nominate the democratic candidates. Many elections we had both a democratic candidate and republican. Like Teddy Roosevelt ran in 1904. One was a republican and one was a democrat. Tamminy hall was seen as the corrupt machine. People like William Jennings brian would rant and rave about tamminy. He wanted the votes but he didnt want them there. Eventually smith is the tamminy man and the candidate and it shocked many people within the Democratic Party. Al smith lost new york in the 1928 election. He did. He had the sad fate of losing the race for president of the United States, and seeing his handpicked successor win. As weve already discussed for governor. Fdr wins and it flips the dynamic of smith roosevelts relationship forever. And roosevelt winds up where smith wanted to be and smith winds up in retirement. We will get into that. Beverly gage when we asked you before the show the issues you thought were important. One you mentioned was the role of t of the media. Al smith came of age as a media bat ler. William randolph hurs was after him and after him, one of the most powerful newspaper tycoons in the country. Smith had a certain amount of confidence by 1928 that he knew how to fend off these kinds of press attacks. But ultimately in the election one of the interesting things about the catholic issue is that we now understand it to have been absolutely crucial to this election. I mean, smith openly acknowledged it. But a lot of it was done and talked about through innuendo. John mentioned earlier the idea of a whispering campaign. It wasnt something that was going to be said in the press, but at the same time the press was going to kind of feed into these images. And so i think smith, from my reading of it anyway, was sort of behind from the first with the press in part because there was so so much coded language being used. Because the press liked his irascible feisty personality, they liked to write about it but were quite contemptuous and fed a public narrative that the respect he kind of deserved. Whats interesting about smith in the press, he loved the press, he used to hold press conferences here in albany. The press corps had a great relationship with imwhats on the record and off the record, except for the battle with hurst. He enjoyed that. When he left the safe confines of new york state and this whispering Campaign Came out and there was papers that werent friendly to him and wouldnt cover the issues important to the Campaign Smith was greatly hurt by that. He wasnt used to that and he also wasnt used to the media of the day. The pie plate. He used to call the microphone youd speak into, from here he accepted the nomination for president of the United States from this very room. He would speak into the microphone. He didnt like to read prepared speeches. Smith used to write, he would take out of his coat pocket an envelope. He wrote everything on the back of envelopes. These are the points im going to make and im going to address the nation on these things and im going to speak from the heart. When the campaign started to be mar of the prepared speech. He wasnt doing that. He was used to meeting people, greeting people, going out there amongst t