Of course, things got a little out of hand and we had to postpone that event indefinitely to talk on one of his other books. But im sure most of our viewers today know many of johns books. Thencrew and country and tin can tightens, which won the samuel l morrison naval award when it came out. Probably the most prestigious naval history. So congratulations on that. John was supposed to come in april and we were able to work in the Distance Learning team to bring the program to you all. This one specifically has to do with our theme of the end of the war. To get right to it so you can get as many of the audiences questions as asked asked and answered by john. Im going to start off with a handful of my own questions. Lets give the audience a reef summary for those who have not read the book. Give them a brief summary. John the dogfight over tokyo explains the story of the last four americans to die in combat in world war ii. By that, i dont mean to say they were the last four men to die ever. This was in combat. We have thousands of veterans who through the decades passed away from injuries and wounds they received during the war, but these were the last four to actually be in a combat action and then die. For tell the story of those and i also interweave with that the story of the air group of which they were a part, air group 88 and you and i will explain that a little more later. Finalactivities in the two months of the war. It shows how a bunch of young aretors, hot stuff, they bragging and ready to go to war and dever eager to get over there. Their flyingmatch skills against the japanese pilots. It shows the gradual transformation of that attitude toward a more hey, i dont want to be here kind of feeling. I take the reader from training in the United States and then to hawaii and saipan. After that, they join the carrier yorktown and operate off the coast of japan in the final couple of months of the war. That is basically what the book is about. To thisat brought you book . Why did you decide to write it when you did and what resources were out there . What did you use . John i first came across this idea 10 or 12 years ago when i was researching for a auger fee of Admiral Halsey that came out in 2010. In there, he mentions in his autobiography that on the final day of war, some pilots were killed and he said they should never be forgotten. Thatstruck me, so i filed away because i had other projects coming up and then finally, a few years back, i turned to it and thought its an intriguing idea if i can find out enough material to flesh out these four aviators. They obviously did not survive the war, so what about family . If i can to myself, find two of the foreign get enough information on that, it will work. And i did. I found plenty of information from two of the four families. To flesh outed me those two, plus other material on the third and fourth aviator as well. Kokomo, thefrom hobbs family had ellie hobbs diary and flight log and all kinds of things and i interviewed his sister, nancy, who i indicated with her a couple of days ago, shes in her mid90s and going strong. We haveto berg family, a picture there, his first name is dwight. Everyone called him billy. Who loves aviation. Billy was born to fly. As a kid, he made planes out of balsa wood. That may be before your time. Playing withe those things. He would make aircraft out of anything. He would run out to watch the planes land, especially when barnstormers were coming through town. Was i wantabout him to fly. I love the excitement, the thrill, so that was what billy hobbs is all about. Then i contacted the man to berg family. He was quite opposite from billy. Whereas billy was all excitement and action, he had a good time dating girls and things like that. Eugene was someone you called eugene comey you did not say jean. Ean it was serious, studious, he loved reading books. He wanted to be a writer. He wrote some columns for the Michigan Daily paper. He had a sharp wit. Not the kind that said i have a great story. And comment on what people were doing. His stories were all about social ear social ills of the time. He wrote a short story about a lynching in georgia and that evils of that and another story about a young soldier who went off to Training Camp and came home with a sharpshooter metal and was bragging to his mom. He said dont worry, we are only shooting at targets. So eugene was the serious one. Delete wanted to get into tohter aircraft specifically match his skills with the japanese pilots in aerial combat. Eugene got into fighters because he did not want to fly a torpedo plane or dive bomber where he had two or three men, whichever plane we are talking about. He said i dont want to be responsible for anyone elses death in the air, so i will fly a fighter. One, im had a third not sure which picture you have coming up here. Joe was from new york and he was one of those cocky aviators. You watch tom cruise in the top gun kind of thing and the way they act is pretty much how he was. Cigar, it seemed. That picture does not have a cigar. But he was known for that. Party in the United States just before they were going to go over to the pacific. He was the wing man for the squadron commander. Promise you ife i will bring him home safely. That did not turn out in one of the actions. There planes knocked slightly into each other and he went spinning to his death. The fourth one, howdy harrison, was a veteran aviator who had already seen some action in the pacific and he was the father of a couple of children. Howdy, in that picture, is in the middle being held up in a celebratory fashion with his buddies aboard the yorktown and had been the subject of a fascinating rescue at sea while they were off the coast of japan. Had to land his plane in the sea of japan, the catalina dumbo flew across through thick overcast, horrible conditions. They succeeded in rescuing him right from under the noses of the japanese defenses. He had two children, one he had never seen because the child was born after they went to the pacific. The book focuses on the first two, billy hobbs and eugene manda berg. It was interesting, when they were in training, eugene met a gal in new york city, and they fell in love and planned to be married once he returned. That is a prominent feature in the book. They obviously did not get married. But it turned out sonja was still alive and is in new york city today. Able to interview her about her recollections of her love from 75 years ago. Aboutone of the things the book that drew me in was what we do at the museum, the personal stories, using this personal accounts and the fact we have the fortunate the fortune of being around those who lived at the time. You mentioned they were operating off the coast of japan. War we think of the air over japan, i think nine out of nine people think of the b29 raids launched from the marianas islands. Tell us about these operations. How close were they getting. Tell us about the operations of the b 29 bombers. These were different, fighters, torpedo planes, and dive bombers. They had under Admiral Halsey, the third fleet stationed off the coast of japan and they could attack one installation factory, shipyard in japan and miles away and0 attack something else. Their purpose for the atom bombs were dropped was to hit these military installations. To prepare the way for the scheduled november invasion, which was supposed to be a massive operation. Their purpose was eliminate as many military targets as possible. After the atom bombs are dropped, it changed. In stead of hitting those targets to prepare for the eventual invasion, they would prod the japanese to the peace table, keep hitting them harder. Halsey would say we have to keep hitting them with everything weve got. Do you think we have enough for one more strike . He was under orders to do that. As halsey had some ulterior motives and i dont know if you want me to get into that now or later. Host we can get into that later as we talk about the decision to launch the mission. John air group 88, off the coast of japan, there normal aeration, they would have morning and afternoon strike that would entail three parts. There would be to sweeps by Fighter Aircraft of the target to clear the way for dive bombers and the torpedoes to follow. Have to sweeps followed by the dive bombers and torpedo planes and then have another one in the afternoon. They had 12 of those in the little more than a month they were off the coast of japan. Missions they were running, just for our nonpacific historians, but the watching us today, it reminded me of the what the raf was lunching, to blow ridges and Communication Centers and soften up the landing ground. That is a great comparison. Host they were on the yorktown. They had a lot of time between missions, a lot of time to ship out from the United States. Board. About life on john they had the 12 Strike Mission days and we will say five weeks. Time the carrier was moving into position. Aboard an aircraft carrier, you much have two crews. You have the Ships Company of officers and enlisted. The Ships Company, their task was to take care of the carrier and get it ready to launch aircraft. Nothing more than that. Before that group. About 300roup of aviators divided into four squadrons. Bomberer squadron, squadron and what was called a ball are fighting squadron. Sectione a separate before aboard the carrier. Companytowns ship would stay with yorktown for the duration. Aboard for six months and then rotated out so they could teach what they knew and be incorporated into other squadrons because they wanted some experienced flyers there. In their off time, they were generally in the ready room. Therefore ready rooms, one for each of the four squadrons. Those ready rooms, i was at the yorktown. Off of patriots point in south carolina. They are not as large as we might think. They are cluttered, but they spend all their time there. Thats where they would go to get the final information before the mission. They were playing cards, smoking, teasing one another, whatever the case may be. The aviators i interviewed told me that was pretty much our home base. That was pretty much it. A few hours of intense, lethal activity interspersed with many hours of lets build lets fill the time with whatever we can. Host the timeline is important. In most popular memory, you have august sixth as the hiroshima bombing and august 9 as the nagasaki bombing and that led to the japanese decision to surrender. Low inre is a week plus between where there are bombs dropped and the actual emperors method is broadcast message is broadcast. That gets us to the august 15 mission. Can you give us some background on that mission . Were continuing to deliver their payloads on the japanese because they had not surrendered. Thata little bit about window and i will ask a followup question when you finish. The missions, there is a nice map of the final flight. There missions when they first arrive were against general targets they want to soften up for the invasion. Bombs, thetom flyers, everybody, they wanted to get out of there. The war is practically over, lets not keep this up, why do we need to attack an airfield when an atom bomb has wiped out two cities. Cannot understand the necessity to go out and face these antiaircraft batteries, you have to try to understand thatits like to fly into black. Theyre shooting straight up at you and you are diving down and you cant weave to avoid the fire because the planes have to lock in on their targets. Aviator told me, there is no skill to it, its just luck. Pure luck. We hated every minute of it. Want toys did not sacrifice their lives when the war was going to end, but they followed orders, obviously. They went on a couple of missions after the atom bombs were dropped and a couple of guys were killed. August 14, one of the men recorded in his diary, god i hope we dont have to go out on another mission tomorrow. Then he added a little bit later, father moody, that was the catholic chaplain, he came by to say no dice. We are going on a strike. The next morning, they had to do that. Of 12 was with a team hellcat fighters. Was not supposed to be on this flight. He was scheduled for a later day. Another team of four was supposed to go, but howdy harrison, the team leader traded places with that other team because he said billy needs one more mission for promotion to lieutenant. He was an ensign. Switch with me . The other team was happy to switch. Billy was not necessarily overwhelmed with joy, but it was arranged and off they went even though one of the pilots said is this really necessary . They took off a little after 4 00 in the morning. The 12 hellcat did. A cloudy day. As he got closer to japan, two of the 12 hellcats were ordered to a higher altitude so they could relay messages to and from the carrier yorktown. So now the hellcat number was down to 10 that proceeded down to the target. Four ledt, a team of by a guy named marvin oden got his team became lost in they said a finger of overcast. I was never sure what to make of that. It doesnt sound like a very cloudy area, but he became lost and those four planes were now gone. Hellcat number was down to six that continued toward their target, which on the map that was showing is just south of tokyo. Bit to the northeast of the dotted line there. They continued on toward tokyo and as they got near the airfield, they were getting ready to attack when the commander contacted them and said stop. We just received word the japanese have agreed to cessation of hostilities. Aboard your mission and return to the carrier. , we are going to be going home, all of those thoughts went screaming through their minds. They turned back and you can see on the map just north of the airfield and they were on their to out to tokyo bay when 15 20 japanese fighters jumps them and they became involved in a furious dogfight. Joe, one of the men who joesed, he said he saw plane going down but joe parachuted out. He saw that but thats all he knew. That same pilot saw another hellcat explode in the air. That guy got out by parachuting as well. Thatther two to be downed day were smashed into farmland or terrain right around the yokohama area. Backleft two guys you got to the carrier yorktown. For who did not. For who were shot down. The air group was crestfallen. This was supposed to be our happiest day. The war is over, but it wasnt. It was our saddest day. Not only do we lose for good friends, but we lost them in the final moments. Theyically, you could say were shot down after the war ended because they had been japanese hadthe agreed to a cessation of hostilities, but they had not yet officially sign the surrender document. That was in september. So they were crestfallen. Survivors, marvin odom, whose team was lost in the overcast said an interesting thing. Said to howdy harrison the other guys, once they learn the war is over, lets continue on and take a tour over tokyo and then they got shot down. I spent some time in the book explaining why that was not feasible. First of all, how would odom know what he told those guys because he was going back to the carrier . Second, who is going to take a tour over antiaircraft areas that have been firing away at you all wore, now manned by japanese who are angry about surrendering . Vietnam aviator who flew over 100 missions over North Vietnam and i said if you got that message, lets go on a tour, he said i would turn around on my own and go back. I would never go on a tour. We would get out of there as fast as we can. On, there was going were two japanese farmers tending their field and they saw this dogfight occur and one of the planes crashed not far from their field. They went over and inspected. Contacted japanese officials who came out and when it cooled, they gathered up the remains of a person. But there was no head, no limbs, just a trunk. That was all. No identification could be made. Andjapanese wrapped it up carried it to the local just trying for the monk to take care of. So they properly took care of the remains of whoever that particular pilot was. Everybody in the United States, everybody was celebrating the end of the war. Statesdy from the united , great britain, etc. Kokomo throughn an allnight celebration. Cars after midnight drove through town honking their horns. Everybody was having a good time. The hobbes and manda berg families could not celebrate. They were happy. They assumed their sons were it, whatuse lets face are the odds of my son is going to die in the final moments of war, thats not going to happen, but still cautious. Lets wait until we find out. Days, others received words from their loved one that they were coming home and they did not. In fact, some of the letters written to billy for his bethday which happen to august 15, the day he was shot down, that was his 22nd birthday. Some of the letters and cards were returned to the family with that horrible stamp, returned to sender. They are going whats going on . Until september the governor officially the government informed them those four pilots were missing in action. They could not be declared dead because there were no remains and so they had to keep them on the books for a year and one day as missing. Then august 16, 1946 is when they officially declared them missing. Since the families carried mementos and families in stead of the actual remains, open wounds persisted for a long time. Both hattie hobbs, the mom of billy and eugenes mom truly believed one day their sons would come walking through the front door. They never gave up that hope. Moms, nancy hobbs told me mom was always on the front porch and told me billy would come walking up the pathway there. Every year on the anniversary of that death, Hattie Hobbes had a poem printed to honor her son. 1946, when they recovered the remains of the pilot that crashed in the farmland. They took the remains to the philippines and buried them, along with the remains they could not identify because dna was not in existence then. They did recover some pieces of the aircraft that indicated probably the plane came from the yorktown and it was probably a hellcat. Joeone of the 3 parachuted into tokyo bay and was gone. Berg, hobbes, or harrison. Eventually, the dna team caught up with everything and two weeks ago, i was informed they have those remains in hawaii and are testing them. Dna samples from the families and hopefully, they will come to a conclusion on who that person is and one family will get that kind of closure. It is an Important Mission the dod still carries on. The museum is in partnership with that organization, the defense p. O. W. Accounting agency. We have a Research Historian here, post doc who is helping them research the last action of those who were fallen and remain unidentified. Will figur