Youre watching American History tv. Every weekend on cspan 3, explore our nations past. Cspan 3, created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. We are four trillion dollars in debt, going into debt an additional one billion dollars every working day of the year. While we sit here tonight, we will go into debt an additional 50 Million Dollars an hour and a half. Its not the republicans fault. Its not the democrats fault. What im looking for is who did it. They are the two folks involved, so maybe together they didnt. The facts are, we have to fix it. Somewhere out there, there is an extra terrestrial doing this to us i guess. Everyone says they take responsibility. Someone, somewhere has to take responsibility for this. That was independent candidate ross perot during the second of three president ial debates on october 15th, 1992. He was talking about one of his favorite issues, the u. S. Debt. In the election, the texas businessman won 19 of the popular vote, the largest vote for an independent candidate since the itll roosevelt. Mr. Perot ran a Second Campaign in 1996, and tonight he is our focus on the contenders. We are doing a series as a way to look at American History through the lens of president ial candidates who failed in their quest for the white house, but have an outsized impact on American History. Ross perot is our final of 14 people we are profiling in this series. Tonight, joining us for our discussion, two hours on ross perot is historian and biographer Doug Brinkley. As a person whos done a number of biographies on 20th century political figures, what interest you about ross perot . He has a pioneer spirit in him. He really harkens back to the 19th century, early 20th century. He is more like henry ford or Thomas Edison. Hes not politics as usual. He really cares about the country, patriotism. Thats become a cheap. Word people throw it about. Ross perot was a superpatriot. Hes less interested in money and politics than he is in doing whats right for our country. This comes out of his Naval Academy background. He was in Constant Service to the country. Looking for p. O. W. s and mias during vietnam and constantly supporting our special forces. But the clip you just ran tells you that in 1992, perot was on the central issue, the National Debt. When he gave that clip, he said three trillion dollars in debt. Today, we are at 15 trillion. When he was talking about the great sucking sound of jobs leaving america due to nafta outsourcing, its probably on the left to stir some middle class americans that say jobs have gone overseas and many of our towns in the midwest and south are languishing right now. The issues ross perot talked about in his campaigns are being echoed today by Tea Party People on the right and occupy wall street on the left. Is that what youre saying . Exactly. Hes a centrist. You cant look at ross perot in a paradigm of typical politics. We often want to label people right, left, this and that. He is something of an older american fighter. Wagon trains out west or the world war ii or korean war heroes, soldiers, explores, inventors. Thats what ross perot is really about. His entering a 92 was not about politics as much as it was Public Service. You have to say this about ross perot in 92 and 96. He put his considerable amount of money where his mouth was. He ran every season we have people contemplating with thirdparty, runs and ross perot did it. Its extraordinary to get about 19 of a vote. Its kind of unprecedented. And it came from middle class people all over america. So its interesting to reflect on the whole united we stand movement that ross perot ran in 92, and with the reform party in 96. Is there going to be a Third Party Person . Is there a ross perot that might enter the mix in 2012 . If you look at his platform in 92, he seems to have been right on a lot of the key issues, including border problems, drugs, violence on the texas mexico border, the need for Public School education. He has controversial things like putting on a gasoline tax. All these issues, if we look at ross perot and his legacy, it invigorates current debate. For Many Americans outside of texas, 1992 was the introduction to ross perot. But he had been on the National Stage for a while. In the late eighties, he began speaking out about these issues that he was concerned about. We look at our Video Library and our first coverage of ross perot was back in 1987. Here he is speaking before the American Bankers Association that here. Lets look at where we are, and lets take the rose colored glasses off. All these people say there is no problem and the fundamentals are sound. I think weve had enough dr. Feel good. I think we are all grown and tough enough to take bad news. And i think its time we look at the facts. Weve got a three trillion dollar debt by 1988. Our net will be funded significantly more by foreign nations. The greatest nation in the history of man doesnt even have the will to pass a national budget. We continue to pass resolutions that put us deeper into debt, and weve given up trying to live within our means as a country. There is no correlation between taxes paid in and money spent. We are losing in International Business competition. Some of our banks have problems. Savings and loans have serious problems. Wall street is bouncing all over the place. Our personal spending habits of our people are as bleak as our federal spending habits. Our people spend everything they make. And they have no savings. 24 years ago, 1987. Except for upping the numbers and the fact that americans are now saving because of the 2000 a crisis, almost all these issues can be talked about today. Thats absolutely correct. Remember why ross perot gave that speech. He was a genius at startup operations. He understood the corporate world. In 1960 true, he collected Electronic Data Systems and sold it a few years before that speech, 1980, four to General Motors. He became arguably the richest person in texas. He was on the cover of fortune magazine. He knows what hes talking about of how to take a startup business. He was early with the internet revolution, the importance of data collection, Companies Investing in apple. He really worked for ibm when he was a young man. He really wanted the United States and his adult life to be that work great country it was of his childhood. The country that fdr brought us through and the Great Depression and world war ii the, can do spirit that fills him up. The fact that we were losing in the eighties to japan a lot, and today are problems competing with china, and the fact that so many people in congress seem to be bought and paid for, the lobbying in washington, getting rid of lobbyists and corrupt politicians was at the core of the message. The Contender Series is a call in program. In a few minutes, we will put our phone numbers on the screen so you can be involved in the conversation about ross perot and the issues he was involved in and his legacy in our politics today. In 1993, this book was published, perot and his people, disputing the balance of power, disrupting rather. A longtime texas journalist was the author of the book joining us for the rest of our program from her home in texas. Shes in dallas. Caroline, you knew ross perot as a texas journalist long before Many Americans met him. Would you tell us about his roots and texarkana and his upbringing and what shape the man we knew on the National Stage . Perot was from texarkana. He had a very average texas childhood. He lived in a strong, stable middle class family as a boy. He rode horses, traded horses. He was in the eagle scout. Even in later life, i think he kept all the traits of an eagle scout. He would set objectives for himself, goals and then try to pursue those goals. He was very much in the texas tradition of the day, and as he grew and went to the Naval Academy and started his own businesses, he was sort of representing the can do spirit of texas. His vision was big. The state was big. There were boundless opportunities here. The sky was the limit sort of thing. He really sort of played into what was sort of the texas mythology with texas politicians who were larger than life, very successful businessman who made a fortune here. They were risk takers, not afraid to fail, and that was the sort of spirit that he had and that i think got him into this thing. Its worth noting that at the Naval Academy, ross perot was president of his class last two years. He showed leadership traits early on and the ability to galvanize people under his leadership that we would see later in life. A quick overview of his Business Career lets take a look at after the Naval Academy. He left the navy after four years and went into business into ibm as a salesman. He became the top salesman for the company. That was in 1957. By 1962, he had founded his own company which is Electronic Data Systems. In 1984, he sold eds to General Motors for 2. 4 billion dollars and then stayed on the board for a number years. In 1988 he, founded pro systems and in 2000, nine he sold the company to Del Computers for 3. 9 billion dollars. The source of his great wealth as. That he and his family are also known as philanthropists. Can you talk about that side of mr. Perot and his family . They were given a fortune to all sorts of charities. Mr. Perot himself has made many anonymous contributions and in small ways has helped individuals without people even knowing about it. But there is a hospital here named for his wife. He has given a lot of money to the boy scouts. Its just endless their philanthropy. Doug brinkley, you mentioned earlier his involvement with vietnam p. O. W. s. Can you tell us a bit more about what you know about his interest in that issue, and also how it created the divide between him and later president . We just mentioned he graduated from the u. S. Naval academy in annapolis as the president. Thats a big deal. He was the sort of person in the navy who believed they were only as good as the man they left behind. During the years where he was in the navy, he would sometimes have to go and get soldiers that were on leave or got drunk in a foreign town and get them back on the ship. It became kind of a hallmark to never leave anybody behind. He was very upset during the vietnam war, rightfully so, that the United States, we didnt push the p. O. W. Mia issue enough. Ross perot stepped into that fray in a very dramatic way. He went to back channel negotiations with the vietnamese to say we want every one of our guys back. He has become a hero of the u. S. Military veterans for his constant concern about our soldiers and our troops. Recently, i gave a top four veterans day down and dallas. It was a good group called daughters of world war ii. There were hundreds of world war ii thats, there and i got to talk to ross perot over dinner one night. One of the most Amazing Stories he told me was, that recently, when our seals team killed osama bin laden, they shipped him, they thought so much of him, they shift the walking cane of bin laden. He went to fort pierce, florida to the seal museum, which people should definitely go visit in florida, because i think our navy seals should be people of the year. Perot had to stick their with all of the seals in attendance of bin laden. Thats a tribute to how conscientious he is about protecting service people, helping veterans when he can, and particularly with the special forces that he thinks represent the best of the best of the american spirit. We visited his boyhood home in texarkana. We will show you that. As we are looking at that, i would like caroline to talk about his involvement at the behest of texas governors in issues including the war on drugs and education reform in his home state. He was appointed to a couple of task forces. One by former governor bill clans and another one by former governor marc white. Clemons was a republican. White succeeded him as a democrat. They both tapped perot and asked him to serve. One was on education reform, and i think it kind of points out how mr. Perot was always one to speak his mind. He was never afraid to say what he thought. And he thought thatmaybe we donr Public Schools. So perot just very sarcastically said, okay, lets put all the fat girls on the drill team, lets have everybody be the quarterback. So it was just sort of an example of how he always spoke his mind. But he was never reluctant to take on a job if he was asked to do one like that for a couple of governors. It showed that the democrats and republicans both liked him, and for years, his name had been mentioned as a potential candidate for something in texas because he was a leader. And he was also sort of in the tradition of oldtime texas politicians, people like speaker sam rayburn, and even going back to sam houston in the republic of texas. That kind of a charismatic leader, speaker sam rayburn, lbj, governor john conley, governor clemons who certainly like to speak his mind, governor and richards who was in a class by herself as well. He was so much like some of these older texans who would just tell it like it is, and didnt mind doing the hard work. If he thought it would help the state or help the country, he didnt mind doing the hard work to do it. One more bit of the perot biography that we will put on the screen before we get to his campaign and 92. In a row, on a number of workers were held hostage and mr. Perot was personally involved in the rescue of those. That was later captured in a book by can fall it called on wings of eagles. It became a National Bestseller and later a movie on television. Can you talk about how this and, weve seen a lot of politicians, building the personal biography through the telling of stories like this . This is an amazing story. In 1979, jimmy carter was president. You had the beginnings of the iranian revolution, and two of his workers for his company, for Electronic Data Systems, had been held captive. He wanted them sprung free. He went and hired former special forces people to go in and find a way to get him loose. They ended up using an anti Ayatollah Khamenei rally to go and spring a prison where not just the two americans, his two employees, were released, but about 10,000 Political Prisoners got released. They had a very dangerous trip where it was a cloak and dagger kind of story, but they were eventually able to get smuggled out through turkey. This was a highly successful extraction maneuver of getting in there and getting his guys back. It gets back to what i said earlier about the p. O. W. s and mia. Ross perot believes in loyalty first and foremost. If you are loyal to him and his company, he will do anything for you. If you listen to people that know him well, thats the number one trade, personal loyalty to people that he believes in. We have a great photograph from the period of parole with actor richard macron who played him in the on wings of eagles movie. In the beginning of 1992, set the stage for us about george h. W. Bushs bid for reelection and how the public was feeling about him. 41, as he is called now, had quite an impressive record in Foreign Affairs. He oversaw the berlin wall coming down, the apprehension of noriega in panama, the breakup of the soviet union, the end of the cold war, and in 1990, won the gulf war which most people thought was a Great Success of ousting Saddam Hussein from kuwait. But the economy was stagnant and by early january 1992, pat buchanan was going after president bush as having a silver spoon in his mouth. He was an elite, out of touch. There was a populist revolt in the Republican Party. He also had another insurgent, jerry brown coming, in and trying to retrack. Bill clinton then gets the nomination, and you have the new democrat, bill clinton and George Herbert walker bush, and suddenly, ross perot goes on the larry king show on cnn and says i will run as an independent, if i can be on the ballot in all 50 states. If im drafted, im not going out to run the typical campaign. But people want my ideas and once we talked about it at the outset, here particularly balancing the budget and the stopping of outsourcing of jobs, but also he was opposed to the war in iraq. He thought the gulf war was going to be a mistake and instead special forces should have gone in and killed Saddam Hussein. But he launched this amazing thirdparty run and started soaring in the polls, and became a darling of the summer of 92 and we will pick up the rest of the story in a little bit. Lets show that larry king live february 20th, 1992. When ross perot announces his willingness to run. Everybody is saying why are we in this mess. Look in the mirror. We are the owners of this country. We dont act like it. We act like we get programed by messages coming out of washington. Is there any scenario in which he would run for president. . Can you give me a scenario . Number one, i dont want to. If you are that serious, you the people are that serious, register me and 50 sta