Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Vice Presidency 20240712

They created the vice presidency for two reasons, in case the president died, resigned or was incapacitated, summary can step in. That was not clarified and was indeed, controversial until the 1840s. The second reason, potentially was because of the Electoral College structure. About thew anything Electoral College, you know that one of the rules of the original design was that Electoral College electorate vote for two people. They have to be from two different states. The way it worked was that you votes perwo boats president. They had to come from two different states. The founders did that because they thought that at some level or some point, they would vote for somebody from their own state. That second vote was there to force people to vote for somebody else from another state to try to run in the region and get summary from the national reputation. Then they used those two votes to get a first and second place winner. Otherwise, it was just a placeholder. Carlisle, infessor the 1800s, things got a little bit more complicated. Can you swing with the 12 amendment is . Professor carlisle the 12 carlisle professor the 12 amendment . I did not know we would be talking about that today. I cannot. I can. It changed the Electoral College structure. Or to the election of the of 1800, whoever got the most votes became the president. Wherever the secondmost came Vice President. Thomas jefferson and ehrenberg burr got the same amount of votes. Burr were trying to put him passed differs in. That became the 12 amendment. I see your picture showing up. Just jumping off of the radio to join us. Welcome. Great to be with you. I ran from the first floor to the fifth floor. Great to be with everyone. I already learned something from james. We are off to a good start. Jennifer we are talking about the evolution of the vice presidency and how things shifted. Historical fun facts that you want to throw into the discussion . The originallisle job was to preside over the senate. Were there original job was to preside over the senate. There were some that did not enjoy sitting there while the members of the Senate Debated over things. It became more of a ceremonial role and they pass that off. I have been saying for years that for both the democrats and the republicans, they really wanted to move an agenda if they really wanted to move an agenda, they should have the Vice President go sit in the senate and have all and demand that the senators all be all day longate and vote in front of the American People. Jennifer you talked about ceremonial positions. Was the vicell president under Woodrow Wilson and he said once there were two brothers. One ran away to see and one was elected ran away to sea and one was elected to be Vice President of the United States and neither was ever heard from again. Thater Vice President said job of the Vice President was to go to weddings and funerals. Seeessor carlisle, do you the Vice President as ceremonial . Do they have more heft in governing today . What are those specific duties that are laid out for the Vice President right now . Boyd mentioned the president of the senate. What is in the Vice President s column right now . Professor carlisle we have seen the historical vision of the Vice President involved because over thetations executive branch does the president comes in with his or her own agenda. They come in with a list of policies and the expectation by to American People it was have a hefty role in policymaking. Presidencye vice also took a greater role. Saw wast handoff we with al gore and clinton. Gore a wide al variety of responsibility. Probably more than a lot of historical Vice President. Outee that carried throughout subsequent presidencies. There has been a lot of speculation that with the age of the current candidate, the Vice President will have exceeding importance because of their advanced age. Typically, the role of the Vice President is to do a lot of fundraising for the ticket. That is still pretty prevalent. Certainly, the role in al gore was handed the environment as one of his policy areas. That followthrough with subsequent presidencies. D mentioned the role as the president of the senate. View the Vice President ial relationship to the senate . When does the role of the Senate President really come into play . It is really only a relevant bill under specified circumstances. One of which is the constitution. The Vice President is allowed to vote to break ties in the senate. Situations where you have a tightly controlled senate or perhaps, the president s party having just enough seats for majority. The george w. Bush administration, there was a 5050 tie. Dick cheney spent a lot of time casting deciding votes. Republicans had very narrow set of majorities during the time. Things like the Nuclear Option which have been used to lower end of debate thresholds in the senate on nominees. You bring the Vice President into preside over that motion because it makes the whole process a little bit smoother. It has become a fairly rare thing. President does not have to spend time hanging around the senate chamber. They just have to make sure that they schedule everything so that he can be there. Jennifer we talked a little bit about the Vice President as a policymaker. H that persons own agenda they are still second fiddle to the person on top, running as president. I imagine somebody that is Strong Enough to stand on their own, rally the troops and raise money, do some stuff to take a backseat when it is completely appropriate, can you talk about the strategy of picking a running mate and geography . Most important things that people look at they have to look at those who might accept the role of Vice President. They have to recognize that there is only one name on the door when it goes into the oval office. They do have to be subservient that way. They have to check your ego at the door. There has been a lot of good done by Vice President over the years in terms of a lot of the negotiating and even a little armtwisting in terms of getting policy agendas through. Anddo have to have art science. It is a delicate dance between having someone who adds value a president who has a Vice President who is just going to go along to get along is useless. They need someone to press against and to even expand and look around the corner. The thing that the president inside the Oval Office May not be stating. That is a critical thing to keep in mind. Geography tends to play in there as well. Of kennedy needing some help with taxes. That was a significant play there. It doesnt really amount to much. There have not been very many great first president ial Vice President ial debates. There have been some all right ones but none of them move the needle. Knew jack kennedy and he was no jack kennedy. Even though it might have been aligned for the ages, they still lost. An interesting thing in terms of geography. How impactful it is, that is presuspect. Professor carlisle, look at the two Vice President ial we will be hearing from this week. What do each of them bring to the ticket . Professor carlisle 10 springs experience. He has had a long career in politics. There is that experience. Probably a little less on the national stage. Experience in public service. Harris, one of the most important factors was her gender and her race and ethnicity. She is a woman of color. This adds a particularly novel dynamic to the vice presidency. Hopefully for the democrats, and will mobilize women people of color. Not only winning but people of color. She brings used youth to the ticket. Jennifer lets talk about the gender issue. Kamala harris was the third aman to be part of president ial ticket. In the past, when women i assume part of the appeal was to appeal to those women voters out there. Did it work in the previous two instances . We could carlisle talk about geraldine ferraro. Attracted anyshe more to the ticket. There senator palin was some controversy about her personality and characteristics and knowledge and experience. Clinton did not win the nomination for the democrats, it was thought that Democratic Women might jump over and support that is not the case. We dont see that women automatically support women. There are other things like party, identification that come into play. There are also issues that come into play. But i think one of the interesting things about this election is in particular, the women that came out in 2018, against trump, they really lead that blue wave. He has been characterized by many as sexist and misogynist. It really mobilized women in a different way. I think there is a possibility that women are still really motivated to turn out. Maybe it will get people off the bench and into the polls. But whether it will attract women from the right, that is hard to say. Curry, doprofessor you want to jump in . Professor curry just to say that Kamala Harriss selection really fits in with who president s select with their Vice President. It talks about who the president select to be the Vice President. Historically, it has largely been about balancing the ticket, especially with geography in mind. But that was true for most of American History through the 1960s. Through that period, Vice President were not selected by the president s themselves but by the Party Leaders. The conventions would meet, they ,ould select a president sometimes after multiple ballots because there was no clear frontrunner. Then the Party Leaders would say who needs to go along with this person in order to keep our Party Unified . Party, that meant they would nominate a northerner to run for president and then they would give them a southerner for their Vice President ial nominee. ,hen there would be balance more often they would have the traditional moderate versus the to keep them vp happy. It has only been since jimmy carter that the Vice President ial selection has something to do with him or herself. Jimmy carter decided who he wanted decided that he wanted to play the leading will in deciding who the vp was. He wanted somebody he could work with. Water was someone that was a good personal fit for jimmy carter. Going forward, it has been about those things going together. You want someone that reflect part of the party that the nominee does not reflect and you want someone who can work well with the president. You see this clearly with harris. Joe biden is an older white man. In a time where we spent the entire democratic nomination talking about how the Democratic Party is too old, male and white. She is also a senator that is and that is something that is near and dear to joe bidens heart. Go aboutow you should policymaking in washington to him. Joe biden selected a female, nonwhite senator to be his running mate the same way that donald trump shows mike pence who is in a lot of ways, his opposite and has the opposite strength. An evangelical christian who identifies very strongly as an evangelical christian. It can be that sort of out of reach to that part of the party that donald trump did not reflect very well. Long, deep ties in washington and the washington policymaking community. His verylater through close relationship with paul ryan. See how present this mixture is for the Party Coalition and what is good for me. Jennifer you certainly have something to say on this. Mattere vp pick really on election day . It does not seem to sway votes. What is the significance of this . Historically, i dont know that it has ever determined the outcome of an election. It does not seem to have that kind of sway. I think this year might be a Tipping Point in that. As was mentioned by professor carlisle. With the age of both of the top of the ticket members in joe biden and President Trump, both being 73 plus. Also, with the recent health of the president , that these two nominees for Vice President are very relevant and very important in terms of stabilizing their political basis to make sure there is a steady hand at the helm and a positive influence, regardless of what the health of the president might be. They also need to demonstrate that they have a policy vision and agenda. It often becomes subservient to the president. I think voters think how do you make your decisions . One of the things we will see on wednesday is that you will see what principles guide them in terms of decisionmaking. Even speaking to senator harriss comments over the weekend. It is very clear that she understands that people are looking to her as a force on the ticket. She is not just there as a free pass or a filler. They actually have to be people who are going to motivate people to i dont know if we have to get off the bench. We just have to go to the Kitchen Table to cast about this year. Pencent Vice President will show that he is a policymaker, he has an agenda and he can get policy done. This will be these will be the most influential Vice President ial picks we will probably ever see. Carlisle, itfessor is interesting to look through the lens. Do you see this as a Natural Evolution . Do you think the future of the vice presidency will change fundamentally because of what we are seeing in 2020 . Havessor carlisle we started on that trajectory. We certainly see an increased role with what the Vice President does. But i think that also, one of the things to think about is that the executive branch is probably one of the most masculine branches in the government. Not a lot of women have made it to these upper echelons of government, the cabinet positions, certainly that has evolved a little bit. We have seen increasing numbers of women in these interior cabinet positions. The secretary of state, for example. I think so. And we think about the role of women, there are a couple of caveats. And we think about the role of womenand the fact that dominating inly law school and Business School theirtes, this leads to pipeline into office. We have more women in these professions as a springboard into office. And even higher levels of office. Too, the choices of women work outside the home, even when they have children is becoming increasingly the norm. I think those sort of rolls are accepted more. Still, it is a very masculine office. There are some gendered expectations about what a lot of these positions should be like. Another thing that is worth mentioning is that during the pandemic, you have seen that workforce atft the significantly higher rates than men. Women of color as well. What people are suggesting is that despite all these gains that women have made in the professional world, jobs, livelihood, careers and really paving ways, that this will set women back. Women are shouldered with the double burden of taking care of their Young Children without daycare or school options. Often times because they make less than a man, their jobs are seen as more willing to be sacrificed. One parent has to stay home. The lower wage will. Does in a long run for politics, we can say but it is serious to see what curious to see what will happen down the road. Are we going to lose a generation of high achieving women that can springboard into these higher levels of government . Is an interesting perspective. We have a lot of questions coming in from our students already. How do president ial tickets reconcile differences in political ideology . Are there examples of history when the vp and the president disagree to us to an extreme level . Do you have examples where dichotomy of ideologies and how that plays out . Professor curry there usually is. Lies president ial and president ial nominees were fromted because they came different sections of their party. The way that we talk about the party as more unified than in the past, there are people that ringing parties with different interests and policy goals. Example wouldus be adams and jefferson. They were the leaders of opposing parties, that is an extreme is ample but you can think about a number of examples throughout American History where president s and Vice President s were in sharp disagreement. President johnson and Hubert Humphrey disagreed over the vietnam war. Clinton and gore had many lowprofile disagreements during their time in office. I have to imagine that obama and joe biden also disagreed about a number of things. The key is that the Vice President does not vocalize those things publicly. That theyo make sure are a team player. That if they have disagreements, they bring them up privately. Once the decision is made, the Vice President is on board and stays on board. In a way, the president and vice the parties essentially work internally to reconcile their disagreements forward as fast as possible. You see that where the president and Vice President might debate and discuss and probe each other in the oval office. But when a decision isnt is made about how to move forward, it is kept under wraps. That insider gossip of the president and the Vice President bickering about some policy issues professor carlisle it deftly comes out. Boyd it definitely comes out. The real key to that is if you look at the obama and biden relationship, they often ended up on different approaches when it came to Foreign Policy. Joe biden disagreed with president obama on a host of Foreign Policy decisions, big ones. It is one of those things where you have to recognize that it is not about 100 consensus. It is about 100 support once the decision is made. Having a Vice President that is ok with that, that is comfortable voicing the best administrations are always the mistresses that have big, open, broiling debates about decisions. Once the decision is made, everybody marches forward. They dont do it through back channels and leaks to reporters. One of the interesting things we saw is that with President Trump being very transactional in nature, that is why i think there are so many leaks that come out of that particular white house. In theou had people Obama Administration and george w. Bush, they were fiercely loyal based on relationships. The relationship with the Vice President and the key memories of the staff made it so that there were far fewer leaks coming out of those critical currents than in the administration. Jennifer here is another question from the audience. How common is it for Vice President s to later run for president . How often do they win . Do senators, governors and others have a higher record of becoming president . Professor it to carlisle. Professor carlisle there are certainly some advantages. You served at this high level of office, you have a lot of name recognition but also, you membery have been a team to an administration that has half ofisions that have the country. You have to convince a great number of people that youre separate and you have your distinct position. That can be really hard to do, to separate yourself from your predecessor. The one with whom you served. That can be a real challenge. Certainly, people the senate, people who come with governorships they have name recognition that is helpful to their tickets. Lot g from the house is a more difficult especially has a the house often ittle bit more, youre sort of beholden to a much smaller constituency. Decisions that you make in the house might be a little bit more extreme than sort of moderated. Curry. Er professor professor curry i can give some data on this, i sketched this beforehand, anticipating this might get asked. Juliet is absolutely right, stone or a stepping liability, too. Its best as a step stone if the guy youre working dies or resigns. Vice president s, 29 , nine of those 14 became death or through secession, basically resignation of a president. Eight of them because of the died and one in gerald ford because Richard Nixon resigned. Nly five Vice President s have outright won the presidency at a etter time and even thats a little misleading. One of those is Thomas Jefferson who ran against the sitting president. Essentially, you have four president s who ran for president to a president that they served and eventually won and even one of those folks, Richard Nixon, lost it before he eventually won. In an help you, it puts you the national picture. You can see this with the comparative stuff, the question the Vice President versus senators versus governors, there have been 14 Vice President s that have became president , 16 senators and 17 governors. Of those people fit in multiple categories. Its in relatively equal proportion. You can be pretty much guaranteed if youre Vice President and you survive being you want to t and be president , you have some sort of leg up running for the sense that n the youre going to be if not the of the ner, one frontrunners for the nomination, but thats no guarantee you win, fact, Vice President s running for president have lost the more so than they have won it. Think r boyd, do you Vice President is a liability or an asset for joe biden . Boyd i dont think its going to play out as a major asset. Enough leftover goodwill in the party from the Obama Administration that i think it did help there, in the middle of a pandemic, i think it sort of well, we had a good run, joe is a good player there, we trust him, we know who he is. General of the election, i dont think there is any Real Advantage there, again, divided as the country is on that, its so close that it oesnt seem to be moving the needle one way or the other with the exception, an interesting for us to watch is there were so many voters in 2016 who for President Trump based solely on the Supreme Court, one rare single issue voters like we havent seen very often. Those voters over the last four years have either and exasperated and they have connected and may not vote come november and some towards joe biden. It will be interesting to see if there are fond memories of the might dministration that cause them to drift that way or if things like the Supreme Court the democrats and republicans go to battle in hearings in the coming weeks may reawaken some of those voters. Hat part is going to be just fascinating to me. Professor carlisle if i can add of thisg, too, in terms particular election, biden who an asset ink is considering the environment in is being election held. He is running really as perhaps in chief, right. Long somebody who has a disaddand sometimes its add van takingious as being part of the swamp. Extreme, im somebody you can trust, somebody stable. Other than that, you have a proportion, i cant tell you the numbers, but the numbers lincoln project, the never trumper republicans, of le in high levels visibility who have come out, out licans who have come and endorsed biden. Something we not typically see. His n a lot of ways, connection to obama and obamas isnt a y probably liability at all. I think there is still a lot of sort of these normal times, i think that will well. Y serve him jennifer professor curry, you add . Something to professor curry i largely agree n that point, from a Campaign Strategists standpoint, what you do for your opponent is redefine your opponent, behind. Ly if youre if youre a Trump Campaign to tegist, you would want label joe biden in a way that unflatering to him, make him less popular. E was Vice President for eight years and a relatively popular than his two predecessors makes it a harder job. E isnt somebody who isnt known among the american public, at least the voting public, he voting known in the public, as well known as somebody who hasnt been resident among the american voting public that makes it a lot harder for the tramp to aign or their allies recast joe biden in a certain way. He kind of is who he is and there is not much you can do that. I would add jennifer, real that, that is really important. One other advantage that joe biden has coming in is that he a fouryear sort of breather. Moment from exhale the Obama Administration, often is have that sequence, ok, 12 years with one party and two candidates, is that really the sort of g, so there is a fatigue effect that i think oe biden was very wise when he left the office of Vice President that he did step back. He did some Different Things and began to rebuild and emerge. So again, especially in a andemic whereas professor carlisle pointed out, people are looking back to when times were little bit better or a more certain that healer in chief role. O i think joe biden does bring that to the table and has really and ited from stepped away having a fouryear gap between his run. Jennifer good point. Morbid sort of a question, but what happens if a elected president and dies before theyre inaugurated, as that ever happened in history, has the constitution have any sort of road map for professor carlisle . Professor carlisle yeah, so, i think, again, jim will know the specifics on this ne, the shortest lived presidency, it was a president ho didnt wear his coat to the inauguration. But i think that is a really interesting question. Example, trump succumbs we voting for . Re for e essentially voting like a vote cast for trump, is that a vote cast for pence . There are a lot of attorneys right now who are given to figure this out, the circumstances. And i dont think its morbid, i good realisms some to that, this is a potential and so people want to be prepared, people want to know the answer to that. There is a clear answer as far as i know, but jim has probably the data on that. Professor curry there are semiclear answers, juliette is right, there are no super clear answers. While we have supposed clear proceedings in place, very few tested. Have been fully we had president ial candidates die and Vice President ial different die at points in the electoral cycles, but it turned out every single so was a losing candidate, it ended upper relevant. Forest greeley died after the 1872 but before the Electoral College met, but he lost anyway. Democratic Vice President ial sorry, the candidate died after election day, the Vice President ial candidate for in 1812 died s before election day, but all of these were losers. Deal end, its not a big because they lost anyway. That this comes down to have what happens has so does a do with when candidate die. O if donald trump were to die of the coronavirus before election day or if joe biden were to die for any reason day, the ction expectation is and the procedure that is generally in place is hat the Party Committee is supposed to meet and pick a new nominee and the expectation is cast for that s tickets nominee regardless of what it says on the ballot count, though there would be legal challenges on that effect. If the president , if one of the candidates dies after election but before the electoral technically the Electoral College electors are supposed to vote for whoever hey want, although there are some state laws that would penalize them for doing so, they ould do so and accept the penalties. You would expect under extreme circumstances, they wouldnt penalize them voting for a dead person. Donald trump or passed away after election day, you would expect the electors to vote for their Vice President ial nominee and elevate that person to the presidency and pick someone else to be Vice President. Tragic, its tragic if someone dies, the really troubling moment is if a winning president ial candidate dies of as the Electrical College votes efore Congress Counts the votes. Now youre in a situation where there is no historical precedent where you dont, where there are all sorts of rules about who the house and senate can vote for. Supposed to be people in the top three, top five finishes electricity roll colleges. If there are two, and one is for one that vote is living or refuse to vote and of get you into all sorts circumstantial problem of who is need a t and we would long time of who is probable. President ial a nominee to die. Not because theyre a human being and we wouldnt want die. Ne to its a messy process in part because of the way our elections are run. Professor carlisle this was a well before the Coronavirus Diagnosis of President Trump last week, just ased on the age, i think that has sort of taxed some more on the Vice President ial candidates because these are two men who are in to upper 70s, right, boyd . Boyd yeah, thats right. Putting al of that is lot of eyes right here on the university of utah in salt lake next few days. I know i have, i started at 4 30 this morning and people are very interested in whats going to here in this debate because, again, there is a possibility and whether its election or nd the whether its over the course of the next four years, there still possibility, again, just given age and circumstance that Vice President ial nominees could end up being the occupant of the oval office and think, what ow they they think, how they approach hings is top of mine for everyone around the country. Professor carlisle i was just that, to say, to add to not only that, but given the right tances of health now with one of the candidates, debate president ial might be the last debate before he end of the election, before november 3. So i think there is particular vice ion on the president ial debate than you might normally expect. Usually its sort of, you know, done, but i ts think there is probably going to be a lot more attention to the for a couple of reasons. Professor curry its really again, back to the statistics i shared, eight Vice President s have become president when a president died. And i think we take that for granted because it hasnt the 1960s so its been awhile. Of e get this sort complacency, thats something that used to happen, but it doesnt happen anymore. Used to think that about a lot of things. People used to think that we have the situation where one candidate won the popular won the the other Electoral College. These things can happen which is attention should pay to who the Vice President ial candidates are and what they have a say because they high chance, apparently 30 hance of becoming president either because the president dies or because they run for president later. Important people who may be leading the government and we should want to know what should e to say and we want to see how they perform on a national stage. Want to get to the debate and what you guys expect week, he candidates this but this question first, does the Vice President have Foreign Policy and does it differ for each v. P. . That means thats a general question and then the that we know of on Foreign Policy. Stab nyone want to take a at that one . Professor carlisle i can address that. Talked earlier, sort of at the top of the hour about some of the reasons why v. P. S are chosen, in particular, they might be chosen for their in a particular area and indeed when obama chose why heone of the reasons bidens den was because long history in Foreign Policy. Thats something that obama strength in. Is so certainly Vice President s can have a significant role in oreign policy and it can vary from president to president. Oyd the administrations, you saw when you had younger president s in George W Bush and both chosea and they older more Foreign Policy xperienced candidates to be their Vice President. And so thats an interesting lyndonof course, you had johnson with john f. Kennedy, kind of similar older stability to a youthfulught ticket. This year were kind of seeing that just a little bit, but its going to be interesting to see how that forward because then you have in 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, you had this more statesman experienced top of the Vice President really didnt have to carry the in r in terms of experience Foreign Policy. So well see how that continues to play out. Professor carlisle if hillary elected, she en had an extraordinary amount of policy experience. Vice er will the president ial debate differ from the first president ial debate we saw last week, oh, boy. People kindly say its raucous, other say, wow, thats chaos. How do you think things are going to play out on the debate at the university of utah . Professor curry. Professor curry most president ial debates have been very collegial. There are exceptions to that, Vice President ial similar to aucous, the debate we saw a week ago in cleveland in terms of candidates over each other, you add and mes stockton, who am i why am i here, thats a joke for remember 1992. Not many of the students they have enerally been very collegial and noted for that. The forum, they have them sit a table, it brings a ifferent level of congenialality to it. A would be hard to imagine universe where Kamala Harris and other nce yelled at each more and interrupted each other more than we saw with donald trump and joe biden. Exception of the 1992 debate, Vice President ial very lowkey, en very collegial and often more the y oriented than president ial debates themselves. You get a better sense of what to do on policy from the v. P. Debate than you do from many of the president ial we have had in American History. Professor carlisle. Professor carlisle when we take a look at who these two very duals are, pence is regulated. President trump is no debater. And pence is. Jennifer boyd, in terms of messages, what is the contest that we can expect to hear on wednesday . Boyd as has been mentioned, it a policy ch more of discussion which is really interesting. They will probably lay out president ial e debates what the first 100 days anwhat the first 500 days of ininistration will look like terms of policy. They will go back and forth to be sure. Always forget what the vice do. Idential dates look back four years, tim kaine it wase president pence, tim kaine who was the attacker and interrupter and it didnt knowing tim kaine, it didnt play well, it wasnt really natural to him, but he a set of orders, often the Vice President choice for the tack dog ticket. Tim kaine really came hot on hat and make pence played off of it, ignored a lot of it and stayed on message, so thats thing, an interesting looking back four years ago, but dont see that happening this time. I think Kamala Harris will do something interesting. I think she will poke and little bit both at the president and the administration. He will make the important pivot to what are we for, one thing the American People are they know what youre against. They know youre against the side. They know youre against the policies and what you have done in the country. What the American People want to pivot, is the most important part of the debate, can you pivot to what you are for, what is your positive vision, what is your message, what are your principals and move the o actually country forward. Jennifer its interesting, Kamala Harris is known as an dog. K she is a very aggressive rein herself she in based on last week, will she say, you know, the poll Shows Americans did not like that kind of crosstalk, that kind of aggression. Do you think last week is going the way she will approach her own debates . Any thoughts there . I think as a prosecutor, she understands the art of the steel in velvet gloves. They will be the prosecutor, but it with a light touch and a forward looking vision, not just attacking the resident, not just doing the one liners that you would used meat stuff from the campaign trail. Shell have a light touch to that. Conversation moving i think is the goal for her. Jennifer another gender layer there, right, i mean, the that ations of women differ from men . Professor carlisle absolutely, and going back to what boyd said tim kaine, one of the reasons he came out fiercely is it and hillarydo clinton couldnt. There are te man, certain privileges and behavior that arent bestowed upon women. Balance being assertive and not being aggressive. Thats a very fine line for to be, to be knowledgeable but not arrogant, another fine line. For a woman and especially a black woman, a color because there are angry black about women. That peoplee biases old and so her assertiveness through the gender and race, so its a hard task. Kamala has been very well mentioned,s boyd has she can deliver an attack in a smooth way that you lmost dont know what came by and hit you because she is so with her capable background that is she is really good at it. Jennifer anything to add, professor curry . Professor curry i dont have to add. Thats really good coverage juliet. Boyd and jennifer we have a few minutes left, i would like to hear about of the vice presidency, how 2020 is really potentially ould eshape the notion of this office and, professor curry, you. Start with professor curry what we have an since the 1970s is increasingly empowered Vice President in the sense that, prejimmy carter, Vice President s were kept about as far as arms length as possible president in part because often they were sort of political heir ambitions or because they just, they didnt absolutely trust this person. Wasnt necessarily that it was someone that they had a working nal relationship prior to entering the white house. Since carter, thats changed and more of a partnership and you have seen this become with singly so over time president s since then entrusting portions of their agenda and of their government to be overseen largely by the Vice President , by treating the vice of the top one advisors in the white house. Thats what you are going to to see. What 2020 adds that is specific for the moment and not run, arily for the long with two very old president ial nominees, were in a situation we havent seen in a long time where there is a higher one of od than usual of them becoming president in the and i think rs thats really timed, that doesnt say anything about the nominees in ve the 2024 or 2028, but for 2020 coming ally and for the president ial administration, it adds even more which could make complicated in whoever wins the presidency may be looking over their shoulder a bit more than we have seen as oflator we havent seen clinton east since the administration where it seemed toward the back end that clinton was looking over his shoulder at clearly had president ial ambitions for 2000. Jennifer boyd matheson. Boyd i think it will be fascinating to see how it discontinue to evolve and again, older candidates, candidates, that tends to ebb and flow as we go down the decade. Its interesting, too, as we look at that role, i vice the two current president ial candidates are going to be part of shaping what the vice presidency looks like come. Ecades to i actually think the debate were going to see this wednesday is actually going to upcoming ew of attractions because regardless of who wins on the first tuesday november, both of these candidates will be around in this could well be a preview. I also think it will be very again, as itto see, relates to the vice presidency and these candidates take some y, do they of the cues of where they are of utah, in terms were a country at a crossroads. To be learned in terms of where we are, lots of to deal with in erms of race and addiction, opioids, depression, homelessness and air quality. Are all going to come together in this debate. Things future Vice President s will grapple with in out the vice ng president in terms of the future and policy. Carlisle, professor you get the last word. Professor carlisle in terms of wins, the goals of the Vice President will be ifferent depending on which ticket is victorious. I dont imagine if trump and reelected to see any sort of about face in the way that trump governs. He is somebody who doesnt necessarily like to share the spotlight. See that changing. And er, as you see biden harris ticket win, i think you Real Partnership as was stated before. Real partner with obama and i think that is what he was looking for. Unfolding eral crises. We have the pandemic. We have Climate Change and we racism, black lives matter really unfolding and sort of gaining the attention of the american public. And if those are things that a with, irris ticket deal Kamala Harris taking in those. D a big role jennifer thanks for setting the table for wednesdays debate. To it. Forward thanks for all of the Great Questions from the students, all be watching on wednesday to see how this plays out. Care. So much, take professor carlisle thank you. Announcer you are watching American History tv, with event coverage, eyewitness accounts, archival films, lectures and college classrooms, and visits to museums and historic places. All weekend, every weekend, on cspan 3. Announcer since the 1970s, david pilgrim has collected everyday objects that mock and dehumanize africanamericans. The founder and director of the Jim Crow Museum of racist memorabilia argues that although the artifacts are offensive, they can be used as teaching tools to promote conversation and understanding. Next on american artifacts, a visit to the museum in big rapids, michigan, to see a selection of artifacts from their collection of thousands. Special thanks to the museums videographer Franklin Hughes who, due to the coronavirus, recorded the audio and video while we asked questions via zoom. David when i was a kid growing up in alabama, 11, 12 years old