Stream or ondemand at cspan. Org or listen on the cspan radio app. Your place for an unfiltered view of politics. In 1988, republican Vice President ial candidate dan quayle and candidate Lloyd Bentsen debated while a panelist asked questions of the candidates. Good evening. Im pleased to welcome you to this Vice President ial debate. Im Judy Woodruff of pbss newshour and front line. My colleagues on the panel are john margoules of the chicago tribune, tom brokaw of nbc news and britt hume of abc news. Both george bush and Michael Dukakis said their selections of a running mate would reveal a lot about themselves. And based on the history since world war ii, there is almost a 50 50 chance that one of the two men here tonight will become president of the United States. The candidates are senator dan quayle, the republican nominee, and senator Lloyd Bentsen, the democratic nominee. [ cheers and applause ] for the next 90 minutes, we will be questioning the candidates, following a format designed and agreed to by representatives of the two campaigns. However, there are no restrictions on the questions that my colleagues and i may ask this evening. By prior agreement between the two candidates, the first question goes to senator quayle. And you have two minutes to respond. Senator, you have been criticized, as we all know, for your decision to stay out of the vietnam war, for your poor academic record, but more troubling to some are some of the comments made by people in your own party. Just last week, former secretary of state hague said your pick was the dumbest call george bush could have made. [ cheers and applause ] your leader in the senate, bob dole, said a Better Qualified person could have been chosen. Other republicans have been far more critical in private. Why do you think that you have not made a more substantial impression on some of these people who have been able to observe you up close . The question goes to whether im qualified to be Vice President and, in the case of a tragedy, whether im qualified to be president. Qualifications for the office of Vice President and president are not age alone. You must look at accomplishments and you must look at experience. I have more experience than others that have sought the office of Vice President. Now lets look at qualifications and lets look at the three biggest issues that are going to be confronting america in the next presidency. Those three issues are National Security and arms control, jobs and education and the federal budget deficit. On each one of those issues, i have more experience than does the governor of massachusetts. And National Security and arms control, you have to understand the relationship between a ballistic missile, a warhead, what throw weight what mega tonnage is. You better understand about telemetropolitanry and encryption and you better understand you must negotiate from a position of strength. We want to have more arms control and arms reductions. In the area of jobs and education, i wrote the Job Training Partnership act. A bipartisan bill, a bill that is trained and employed over 3 million economically disadvantaged youth and adults in this country. On the area of federal budget deficit i have worked eight years on the Senate Budget committee. And i Wish Congress would give us the line item veto to help deal with that. Qualifications alone are going to be the issue in this campa n campaign, george bush has more qualifications than Michael Dukakis and Lloyd Bentsen combined. [ cheers and applause ] im going to interrupt at this point and ask once again that the audience please keep your responses as quiet as possible. We know that many of you here are for one candidate or another, but you are simply taking time away from your candidate and more likely than not, youll be causing the partisans for the other candidate to react again when their candidate speaks. So, please. Senator bentsen, you have one minute to respond. This debate tonight is not about the qualifications for the vice presidency. The debate is whether or not dan quayle and Lloyd Bentsen are qualified to be president of the United States, because, judy, just as you have said, thats happened too often in the past f that tragedy should occur, we have to step in there without any margin for error, without time for preparation to take over the responsibility for the biggest job in the world. To take over the awesome responsibility for commanding the Nuclear Weaponry that this country has. The debate tonight is a debate about the presidency itself. And a president ial decision that has to be made by you. The stakes could not be higher. Senator bentsen, a question for you. You also have two minutes to respond. What bothers people is not soechl your qualifications but split on policy with governor dukakis. He has said that he does not want a clone of himself but you disagree with him on major issues, aid to the nicaraguan contras. Whose agenda would you pursue, yours or his . Im delighted to respond to that question, because we agree on so many things, and the vast majority of the issues. We agree on the fact that we have to cut this deficit. And governor dukakis has been able to cut that deficit ten budgets in a row in the state of massachusetts while he lowered the tax burden on their people from one of the highest to one of the lower in the United States. That is a major sense of achievement. I admire that. Im just delighted to be on the ticket with him. Governor dukakis and i agree we ought to have a trade policy for this country, that weve seen this administration more than double the national debt, that they move this had country from the number one lender nation to the number one debtor nation in the world under their administration, that theyve not had a trade policy. That theyve let trade be a handmaiden for other Foreign Policy objectives of the country. That this country has exported too many jobs and not enough products. And as i work to pass a trade bill through the United States senate, they threw roadblocks in the way every step of the way. But we passed a trade bill that has this premise. That any country that has full access to our markets, were entitled to full access to their markets. Now that means were going to stand tough for america and were going to protect those jobs and were going to push American Products and were going to open up markets around the world. Well show leadership in that respect. And turn this deficit and trade around. Thats the sort of thing that Michael Dukakis and i will do to bring about a better america for all of our people. Senator quayle, a minute to respond . Senator bentsen didnt tell you very much about what governor dukakis will do. One of the most liberal governors in the United States of america, one thing he tried to point out about governor dukakis is he has cut taxes. The fact of the matter, senator bentsen, he raised taxes five times, including this last year. Thats why a lot of people refer to him as tax hike mike. Thats why they refer to the state of massachusetts as taxachussetts. The liberal governor from massachusetts raises taxes. I dont blame senator bentsen for not talking about governor mike dukakis. If i had to defend the liberal policies of governor mike dukakis, i wouldnt talk about it either. John margoulis, a question for senator bentsen. Youve claimed that president bush will raise but chairman of the finance committee you must know theres something to the argument of your fellow democrat bob strauss, that a decision to tax most Social Security benefits as regular income. You once voted for and spoke for a sixth month delay for Social Security. Senator, arent you and governor dukakis using this issue politically . I hate to contradict my good friend bob strauss but Social Security is an issue senator quayle voted eight times to cut benefits on Social Security. Where this administration came in and tried to cut the benefits, minimum benefits of 122 a month for widows, retirees, for 62yearold retirees by 40 . Tried to do an end run when they first came in after promising not to cut it, by cutting it by some 20 billion. While we were working together to reform the Social Security system and to be certain that that money would be there when people retired that the time they tried a 40 billion end run to cut Social Security. The record is clear, and we saw Vice President bush fly back from the west coast to break a tie in the United States senate. He doesnt get to vote very often in the senate, but he made a special trip to come back and vote against a cost of living increase. When you talk about Social Security, the people that are going to protect it are the democrats that brought forth that program and i think its very important we not see these kinds of end runs by this administrati administration. They talk about the fact that theyre going to continue to cut this budget, i know too well what their track record is. And we should be concerned about that kind of an effort once again after the election is over. Senator quayle, your response . Senator bentsen, you know i did not vote eight times to cut Social Security benefits. Voted to delay the cost of living adjustments. Governor of massachusetts at a governors conference support aid resolution to delay the cost of living adjustment. And john, youre right. They use this for political advantage, but they try to do time and time again is to scare the old people of this country. Thats the politics of the past. In 1983, republicans and democrats drop their political swords and in a bipartisan effort save the Social Security system. Republicans and democrats banded together because we know that this program is not a republican program. Its not a democrat program. Its a program for older americans. John, a question for senator quayle . Since coming to the senate, you have voted against Environmental Protection legislation about twothirds of the time. These include votes against pesticide controls, toxic waste super funds and health and safety protection from nuclear waste. Senator, do you consider yourself an environmentalist . If you do, how do you reconcile that with your voting record . I have a very strong record in the United States senate. I have a record where i voted for legislation. I have a record where i voted against my president on the override of the clean water act. Ive voted for major pieces of environmental legislation that have come down and voted on the United States senate. This administration, and i support this administration, and its environmental efforts, has moved in the area of the first time to deal with the ozone problem. We now have an international treaty, a treaty commonly referred to as the montreal treaty. For the first time were talking about the impact co2, the ozone lay layer. Thats progress for the environment. We are committed to the environment. I take my children hiking, fishing, walking in the woods in the wilderness. Believe me, we have a commitment to preserving the environment. Bring up the environment authors, Democratic Party of clean air, clean water, of the super fund. Im one who maplay aid very maj role in passing super fund legislation. Every major one has now enjoyed Dukakis Bentsen ticket and i have just received the environmental award in texas. The work ive done to clean up the bays, the water in texas. I think we know well who will help clean up this environment. The record is there. The history is there. And dukakis and bentsen will be committed to that. Tom brokaw, question for senator quayle. Thank you, judy. Senator quayle, theres been a lot of talk during the course of this campaign about family, principle theme, as i recall, at your acceptance speech in new orleans. I would like to ask you about the 65 million American Children who live with their families in poverty. I would like for to you describe to the audience the last time you may have visited with one of those families personally, and how you explain to that family your votes against the School Breakfast program, School Lunch Program and the expansion of the child immunization program. [ applause ] i have met with those people. I met with them at a food bank in ft. Wayne, indiana. You may be surprised, tom, they didnt ask me questions about those votes because they were glad i took time out of my schedule to go down, to talk about how were going to get a food bank going, and to make sure we have a food bank in ft. Wayne, indiana. I have a strong record to the poor, to those who dont have a family, twoont have a family. This administration and a George Bush Administration will be committed to eradicating poverty. Poverty hasnt gone up in this administration. It hasnt gone done much either, so that means we have a challenge ahead of us. Let me tell you something, what we have done for the poor. What we have done for the poor is we, in fact, passed the mckinney act that deals with homeless. Congress has cut the funding that the administration recommended. The biggest thing weve done is tax simple lisks act of 1986. 6 million working poor families got off payroll. 6 Million People are off the taxpaying payrolls because of that tax reform and theyre keeping the tax money there. To help the poor, well have a commitment to the programs and those program also go on. We are spending more in poverty programs today than we were in 1981. That is a fact. Poverty program were going to concentrate on is creating jobs and opportunities so that everyone will have the opportunities that they want. Senator bentsen, your response . I find that very interesting. Because he has been of no help at all when it comes to passing the most major wealth ever formed in the history of our country, one where we are working very hard to see that people can get off welfare, break that cycle, take a step up in life. Doing the kinds of things we did there to help them have medicaid for a year. Thats the positive thing its done. What also frustrates me with the kind of report i just heard here were the kind of votes we just cast against child nutrition programs. The fact that he has voted against money we needed for further immunizations, the denial of polio shots to kids where the parents couldnt afford to get that kind of a shot. I dont really believe that is identifying with the concerns of people in poverty. Tom, a question for senator bentsen . I would like to take you back to the question that judy asked you about, your differences with Michael Dukakas on contra aid. That is one of the cutting issues of Foreign Policy in this country the last eight years. And you is Michael Dukakis appear to be diametrically opposed to that. You made one of the most passionate speeches on behalf of contra aid. You allude to the fact that the santa nista regime could pose to your own state of texas. Governor dukakis on the other hand has described contra aid as immoral and illegal. Is he wrong . Governor dukakis and i have disagreed on the contra program, no question about that. But my big difference with this administration is they look at the contra aid program as the only way to resolve that problem. They concentrate on that. And i really think we have to give peace a chance. Thats why ive been a strong supporter of the adios plan that won the nobel prize for president adios, the president of costarica. To try to bring about the democraticization of nicaragua by pressure, by counseling, by diplomatic pressure we ought to be trying that first. By concentrating so much just on the contras, this administration has not paid enough attention to the rest of central america. The concern i have is that we have a country with 85 Million People sharing a 2,000mile border with us, with half of those people under the age of 15. A country that has its standard of living cut 50 in the last six years. Now we ought to be concerned about that. We ought to be involved. I was born and reared on that mexican border. I speak their language. I spent a good part of my life down there. Governor dukakis spooe speaks spanish, too. He spent a good deal of time in central and south america. We believe we ought to be working together with a new alliance for progress, bringing in other countries to help. Bring in europeans, the spanish, who have a real afanity for that area. Bringing in the japanese, a great capital circlist and looking for places to invest it. Those are the positive things i think we could do, to bring about peace in that area. To help raise that standard of living and give them the kind of stability where democracy and perceive and can prosper and bloom. Those are the kinds of things that we would be committed to in a dukakisbentsen administration to try to make this world a better place in which to live. Senator quayle, your response . Theres no doubt in a Dukakis Administration that the aid would be cut off to the de