Television provider. In the 1980 election president jimmy carter and former california governor Ronald Reagan debated once. The debate took place in cleveland, ohio, one week before election day. Good evening. Im ruth heiner falg of the league of Women Education fund. Next tuesday is election day. Before going to the polls voters want to understand the issues and know the candidates positions. Tonight, voters will have an opportunity to see and hear the Major Party Candidates for the presidency state their views on issues that affect us all. The league of women voters is proud to present this president ial debate. Our moderator is howard k. Smith. Thank you, mrs. Hownerfeld. The league of women voters is pleased to welcome to the cleveland, ohio, Convention Center music hall, president jimmy caterpillarer, the Democratic Partys candidate for reelection of the presidency and governor Ronald Reagan of california, the Republican Party candidate for the presidency. The candidates will debate questions on domestic, economic, Foreign Policy and National Security issues. The questions are going to be posed by a panel of distinguished journalists who are here with me. They are marvin stone, the editor of the u. S. News and world report. Harry ellis, National Correspondent of the Christian Science monitor, William Hilliard, assist and managing editor of the portland oregonian. Barbara walters, correspondent, abc news. The ground rules for this as agreed to by you gentlemen are these. Each panelist down here will ask a question, the same question to each of the two candidates. After the two candidates have answered, a panelist will ask followup questions to try to sharpen the answers. The candidates will then have an opportunity each to make a rebuttal. That will constitute the first half of the debate and i will state the rules for the second half later on. Some other rules the candidates are not permitted to bring prepared notes to the podium, but are permitted to make notes during the debate. If the candidates exceed the allotted time agreed on, i will reluctantly, but certainly interrupt. We ask the Convention Center audience here to abide by one ground rule. Please do not applaud or, press approval or disapproval during the debate. Based on the toss of the coin, governor reagan will respond to marvin stone. Governor, as you are well aware, the question of war and peace has emerged as the central issue of this campaign and the give and take of recent weeks governor carter has been criticized to responding late to insufficient buildup of armed forces and the paralysis of dealing with afghanistan and iran. You have been criticized for being all too quick to advocate the use of lots of muscle, military action to deal with foreign crises. Specifically, what are the differences between the two of you on the uses of American Military power . I dont know what the differences might be because i dont know what mr. Carters policies are. I do know what he has said about mine, and i am only here to tell you that i believe with all my heart that our First Priority must be world peace, and that use of force is always and only a last resort when Everything Else has failed, and then only with regard to our National Security. Now i believe also that this meeting this mission is responsibility for preserving the peace which i believe is a responsibility peculiar to our country, and we cannot shirk our responsibility as the leader of the free world because were the only one that can do it and therefore the burden of maintaining the peace falls on us and to maintain that peace requires strength. America has never gotten an award because we were too strong. We can get into a war by letting events get out of hand as they have in the last three and a half years under the foreign policies of this administration of mr. Carters, until we are faced each time with a crisis and Good Management in preserving the peace requires that we control the events and try to intercept before they become a crisis. I have seen four wars in my lifetime. Im a father of sons. I have a grandson. I dont ever want to see another generation of Young Americans bleed their lives into sandy beachheads in the pacific or rice patties and jungles in asia in the battlefields of europe. Mr. Stone, do you have a followup question for the governor . Governor, weve been, and associate yourself with cost of tens of dollars more than now. And the American People are willing to bear this cost and reconcile with your promise of substantial tax cuts and in this fiscal year when the standard ran more than 60 billion in the red . Mr. Stone, i have submitted an economic plan and with the fine economists in this country and believe that over a fi fiveyear projection the extra spending for needed refurbishing of our defensive posture that it can provide for a balanced budget by 1983, if not earlier, and that we can afford along with the cuts that i have proposed in Government Spending, we can afford the tax cuts i have proposed and probably, mainly because mr. Carters Economic Policy has built into the next five years and on beyond that, a tax increase that will be taking 86 billion more next year out of the peoples pockets than was taken this year and my tax cut does not come close to eliminating that 86 billion increase. I am only reducing the amount of the increase. In other words, what im talking about is not putting Government Back to put less money than the government is getting and simply cutting the increase in spending. The same question now goes to president carter. President carter, would you like to have the question repeated . Yes. President carter, the question of war and peace, a central issue in this campaign. Youve been criticized in the give and take for responding late to aggressive soviet impulses and for an insufficient buildup of our armed forces and a paralysis in dealing with afghanistan and e ran. Governor reagan, on the other hand, has been criticize for being all too quick for muscle and military action search as i mentioned. Specifically, what are the differences between the two of you on the uses of American Military power . Mr. Stone, ive had to make thousands of decisions since ive been president serving in the oval office and with each one of those decisions it would affect the future of my country, and i have learned in the process, i think im a much wiser and experienced man than i was when i debated four years ago against president ford. I also know there are no simple answers to complicated questions. H. L. Minkon said for every problem there is a simple answer, it would be neat and plausible and wrong. The fact is that this nation in the eight years before i became president had its own military strength decrease. Seven out of eight years the budget went down 37 in all. Since ive been in office weve had a study, carefully planned, methodical, but very effective increase in our commitment for defense, but what weve done is to use that enormous power and prestige and military strength of the United States to preserve the peace. Weve not only kept peace for our own country, but weve been able to extend the benefits of peace to others. In the middle east we worked for a peace treaty between israel and egypt successfully and have tied ourselves together with israel and egypt in the common defense capability. This is a very good step forwart for our nations security and well continue to do as weve done in the past. I might also add that there are decisions that are made in the oval office by every president which are profound in nature. There are always trouble spots in the world and how those troubled areas are addressed by a president alone in that oval office affects our nation directly. The involvement of the United States and also our american interests. That is a basic decision that has to be made so frequently by every president who serves. Thats what ive tried to do successfully by keeping our country at peace. Mr. Stone, do you have a follow up . Yes. I would like to be more specific on the use of military power and lets talk about one area for a moment. Under what circumstances would you use military forces to deal, for example, a shutoff of persian oil gulf if that were to occur or to counter a russian expansion into iran or pakistan. I ask this question in view of charges that we are willfully unprepared to have sustained, and i emphasize sustained power in that part of the world. Mr. Stone, in my state of the Union Address earlier this year i pointed out that any threat to the stability or security of the persian gulf would be a threat to the security of our own country. In the past weve not had an adequate military presence in that region. Now we have two Major Carrier task forces and we have access to facilities in five different areas of that region and weve made it clear that working with our allies and others that we are prepared to address any foreseeable eventuality which by commerce with that crucial area of the world, but in doing this, we have made sure that we address this question peacefully, not injecting American Military forces into combat, but letting the strength of our nation be filled in a beneficial way. This, i believe, has assured that our interests will be protected in the Persian Gulf Region as weve done in the middle east and throughout the world. Governor reagan, you have a minute to comment or rebutt. Yes. I question the figure about the decline in the defense spending under the previous two administrations. I will recall to your attention we were in a war during those eight years which of course, made a change in military spending because of turning from war to peace. I also would like to point out that republican president s in those years faced with the democratic majority in both houses of the Congress Found that their request for Defense Budgets were very often cut. Now gerald ford left a fiveyear projected plan for a military buildup to restore our defenses and president carters administration reduced that by 38 , cut 60 ships out of the Navy Building program that had been proposed and stopped the b1, delayed the Cruise Missile and stopped the production line for the minuteman missile ask delayed the Trident Submarine and now is planning a mobile military force that can be delivered to various spots in the world which does make me question his assaults on whether i am the one that is quick to use force. President carter you have the last answer on this question. One is to control Nuclear Weapons which i hope to get to earlier on because thats the most important single issue in this campaign. Another is how to address troubled areas of the world. I think habitually, governor reagan has injected it into troubled areas when i and my predecessors both democrats and republicans have advocated resolving those troubles in those difficult areas of the world peacefully, diplomatically and through negotiation. In addition to that, the buildup of military forces is good for our country because weve got to have military strength in order to preserve the peace, but ill always remember that the best weapons are the ones that are never fired in combat and the best soldier is one who never has to lay his life down on the field of battle. Strength is imperative for peace, but the two must go hand in hand. Thank you, gentlemen. The next question is from harry ellis to president carter. Mr. President , when you were elected in 1976 the consumerprice index stood at 4. 8 . It now stands at more than 12 . Perhaps more significantly, the nations broader underlying inflation rate has gone up from 7 to 9 . Now a part of that was due to external factors beyond u. S. Control, notably, the more than doubling of oil prices by opec last year. Because the United States remains vulnerable to such external shocks can inflation, in fact, be controlled . If so, what measures would you pursue in a second term . Again, its important to put the situation into perspective. In 1974 we had a socalled oil shock wherein the price of opec oil was raised to an extraordinary degree. We had an even worse oil shock in 1979. In 1974 we had the worst recession, the deepest and most penetrating recession since the Second World War and the recession that resulted this time was the briefest weve had since the Second World War. In addition, weve brought down inflation. Early this year in the First Quarter we did have a very severe inflation pressure brought about by the opec price increase. It averaged about 18 the First Quarter of this year. The Second Quarter we had dropped it down to 13 . The most recent figures, the last three months or the Third Quarter of this year, the inflation rate is 7 . Still too high, but it illustrates very vividly that in addition to providing an enormous number of job, 9 million new jobs in the last three and a half years that the inflationary threat is still urgent on us. I noticed that governor reagan said the reagan kemp, ross proposal which was his own runningmate as voodoo economics and said that it would result in a 30 inflation rate and businesswoke which is not a democratic publication said that this Reagan Kemp Ross proposal was completely irresponsible with inflationary pressures which would destroy this nation. Our from polls are very sound and carefully considered to stimulate ons and to create two for American Workers and at the same time would be antiinflationary in nature. To add 9 million new jobs and to plan for the future with the Energy Policy now intact as a foundation is our plan for the years ahead. Mr. Ellis, do you have a followup question for mr. Carter . Yes. Mr. Carter, you mentioned the creation of 9 million new jobs and at the same time the Unemployment Rate still hangs high as does the inflation rate. Now i wonder, can you tell us what additional policies you would pursue in a Second Administration in order to try to bring down that inflation rate and would it be an act of leadership to tell the American People they are going to have to sacrifice to adopt a leaner lifestyle for some time to come . Yes. We have demanded that the American People sacrifice and theyve done very well. We are imforting onethird less oil than a year ago. Weve had a 25 reduction since the first year i was in office. At the same time, as i said earlier, we have added about 9 million net new jobs in that period of time, a record never before achieved. Also the new Energy Policy has been predicated on two factors. One, conservation which requires sacrifice and the other increase in production of American Energy which has gotten along this well and more oil and gas this year than ever before in history. The new economic reviet looization program which will result in a tax credit that would let someone invest and to create more jobs in the haft few years. We want an employment program, which would have 6 hun,000 yrs for young people and it had can pass. Governor reagan, would you like to have the question repeated . Governor reagan, during the past four years the consumerprice index has risen from 4. 8 to currently over 12 and perhaps more significantly, the nations broader underlying rate of inflation has gone up from 7 to 9 . Now a part of that has been due to external factors past your control does doubling the Oil Prices Last year which leads me to ask you whether since the United States remains vulnerable to such external shocks can inflation, in fact, be controlled . If so, specifically, what measures would you pursue . Mr. Ellis, i think this idea that has been spawned here in our country that inflation somehow came upon us like a plague and therefore its uncontrollable and nobody can do anything it is dangerous to say this to the people. Inflation was 8 and it had been cut in two by president gerald ford and it is now running at 12. 7 . President carter also has spoken of the new jobs created, with always, with the normal growth in the country and increase of population increase the number of jobs and that cant hide the fact that there are 8 million of those lost their jobs in just the last few months. It also promised that he would not use unemployment as a fight to, and we would ri deuce productivity and Gross Domestic Product and increase unemployment in order to get a handle on inflation because in january in the beginning of the year it was more than 18 . Since then he has blamed to the people in opec and hes blamed the Federal Reserve system. He has blamed the lack of productivity and the American People and he has a duszed People Living too well. We mu