Postpone that event indefinitely to talk on one of his other books. But im sure most of our viewers today know many of johns books. Hell from the heroes, im sorry, hill from the heavens four crew and country and then tin can tightens, which won the samuel l morrison naval award when it came out. Probably the most prestigious award regarding naval history. So congratulations on that. Many years belated. John was supposed to come in april and we were able to work in the Distance Learning team to bring the program to you all. This one specifically has to do with our theme of the end of the war. The 75th anniversary of the end of the war. We are going to get right to it so you can get as many of the audiences questions asked and answered by john. Im going to start off with a handful of my own questions. Lets give the audience a brief summary for those who have not read the book. Give them a brief summary. The dogfight over tokyo explains the story of the last four americans to die in combat in world war ii. By that, i dont mean to say they were the last four men to die ever. This was in combat. We have thousands of veterans who through the decades passed away from injuries and wounds they received during the war, but these were the last four to actually be in a combat action and then die. So i tell the story of those for and i also interweave with that the story of the air group of which they were a part, air group 88 and you and i will explain that a little more later. Their activities in the final two months of the war. It shows how a bunch of young aviators, hot stuff, they are bragging and ready to go to war and dever eager to get over there. They want to match their flying skills against the japanese pilots. It shows the gradual transformation of that attitude toward a more hey, i dont want to be here kind of feeling. I take the reader from training in the United States and then to hawaii and saipan. After that, they join the carrier yorktown and operate off the coast of japan in the final couple of months of the war. That is basically what the book is about. Whats brought you to this book, why did you decide to write it when you did and what resources were out there, but did you use . I first came across this idea 10 or 12 years ago when i was researching for a biography of Admiral Halsey that came out in 2010. In there, he mentions in his autobiography that on the final day of war, some pilots were killed and he said they should never be forgotten. That struck me, so i filed that away because i had other projects coming up and then finally, a few years back, i turned to it and thought its an intriguing idea if i can find out enough material to flesh out these four aviators. They obviously did not survive the war, so what about family . I thought to myself, if i can find two of the four and i get enough information on that, it will work. And i did. I found plenty of information from two of the four families. So that enabled me to flesh out those two, plus other material on the third and fourth aviator as well. I picked up from kokomo, the hobbs family had billy hobbsdiary and flight log and all kinds of things and i interviewed his sister, nancy, who i indicated with her a couple of days ago, shes in her mid90s and going strong. The manoberg family, we have a picture there, his first name is dwight. Everyone called him billy. He was a guy who just loved aviation. His sister said, billy was born to fly. As a kid, he made planes out of balsa wood. That may be before your time. I used to love playing with those things. He would make an aircraft out of anything, and nearby airfield he would run out to watch the plane land or especially were barnstormers for coming through town in indiana. He just always everything about him was about wanting to fly, and love the excitement, the thrill. So that is what he is all about. Then i content did the man the bergh family, and you see eugene there. And he was quite opposite from billie. Billy was all excited and action, he had a good time dating girls and things like that. Eugene was someone who you called, eugene, you didnt say hygiene, it was huge. It was serious. Studious. He loved reading books. He wanted to be a writer and if an effect was, he wrote some books for the michigan daily, and arbor, michigan. He had a sharp with, but not the kind that said hey ive got a great story to tell you. Did you hear the story about bubba. He would comment on how someone said something, or did, something Something Like that. His stories were all but social ills at the time. He wrote a story about a lynching in georgia and all the evils of that. Another story about a young soldier who went up to Training Camp and was a sharpshooter, bringing to his mom and she was worried, he goes we were only shooting at targets. She said oh my god he doesnt even understand hes being taken advantage of. Eugene was a serious one, whereas billy wanted to get into the fighters, Fighter Aircraft specifically to match the skills of the japanese pilot in aerial combat, eugene got into fighters because he didnt want to fly eater pita plane were two or three man is, whatever were talking about. He said i dont want to be responsible for anybody else his death on the air, so i will fly a fighter. Then you had a third one. Im not sure which poetry of coming up here. Joe from new york, joe was one of those khaki aviators. You watched tom cruise in top gun, the way he would act is the way he was. He had a cigar, of course the picture is half a cigar. He was known for that. At a party, in the United States, just before they were gonna go over to the pacific, joe was the wing man for the commander. He told his wife, i promise you i will bring him back home safely. That did not turn out him of their actions. Their planes knocked slightly into each other, as the kremlin went study to his death. The fourth one, how do you hear, worsen was a veteran aviator who had already seen some action in the pacific, and he was the father of a couple children. One, how do you in that picture, is in the middle, being held up in celebratory fashion by his buddies aboard in new york county. He had been the subject of a fascinating rescue at sea while they were off the coast of japan. He had to land his plane in the sea of japan, a catalina, dan bowl flew across, through thick overcast. Horrible conditions. This succeeded in rescuing him right from underneath the nose of the japanese defenses, is the way the newspaper newspaper described. It hit two, children one hit ever seen because one was born after they went to the pacific. Those were the for aviators. The book focuses on the first two. Billy hobbes and eugene manta bergh. It was interesting, when they were in training, eugene met a gal in new york city, and they fell in love, and plant to be married once he returned. So thats another prominent feature in the book. They obviously did not get married. It turned out sonia was still alive, and is today in new york city. So i was able to interview her about her recollections of her love from 75 years ago. One of the things about the book that really drew me in was basically what we do here at the museum, we share personal stories, by using those personal accounts, and the fact that we do have the fortune of being around those who are living around the time. John, you had mentioned that they were operating off the coast of japan. When we think of the air war over japan, i think nine out of nine people would probably think of the b 29 rates that relaunching from the miry addis islands. Tell us a little bit about these operations. What was the purpose . How close were the getting . Tell us about the operations of the b 29 bombers. These were quite different obviously, the smaller aircraft, fighters, peter planes, and dive bombers. They had under admiral, see the third fleet stationed off the coast of japan, and since it was a Fast Carrier Task force they could attack one installation factory, shipyard in japan, and then be 200, 300 miles away and attack something else. They are purpose before the atom bombs were dropped was to hit these targets, these military installations. Factories, etc, the prepared the week for the scheduled in november invasion of japan itself, which was supposed to be a massive operation obviously. So their purpose was a limit as many of those military targets as possible. After the atom bombs were dropped a changed. Instead of hitting those targets the prepare for the eventual invasion, they were to hit the target to pry the japanese to be stable. We gotta keep hitting, them he kept saying that. Even on the last day of the work he said to you think we have and nafta left for one more strike, to get ahead . He was under orders to do that. As hall c had some ulterior motives, i dont know if you want me to get into that now. Leader, as we talk about the decision to launch the mission. Well do that later . Okay. So the air group 88 off the coast of japan, their normal operation, each strike, or each mission date they had a morning or afternoon strike. It would entail three parts. There would be to sweeps by Fighter Aircraft of the target area. You eliminate anti aircraft. There clear the way for the dive bombers, torpedoes that would follow. Youd have to sweeps followed by the strike of the dive bombers and torpedo planes. Theyd have another moment, that 12 of those and a little more than a month off the coast of japan. The missions they were running, just for our non pacifica story, and the more european audience members that are watching today, reminded me a lot of the predday invasion in normandy, and the missions that the air force, and our imf was lunching there. Hello bridges, and communication centers, and to basically soften up the landing craft. Thats a great comparison. So tell us, that a lot of time between missions, a lot of time to ship out from the United States. Tell us about life on board. Crew members of the your tan. As i said, they had the 12 straight days, mission days, and they were there will say five weeks. So there was time while the career was moving into position for another attack, the air group first of, all aboard an Aircraft Carrier you can have pretty much two cruise. If the Ships Company of about 2700 officers and enlisted. The Ships Company, their task was to take care of the carrier, and get ready to launch aircraft. Nothing more than that. They existed for air group. The air group was a separate crew of 300 aviators, divided into four squadrons. A fighter squadron, bombers quadrant, and what is called a bombing fighting squadron, of course aircraft. They were a separate section aboard the chariot. The your camps ship company would stay with your count for the duration. Aircraft generally were aboard a carrier from six months, and they were rotated out so that they could teach with the new, training aviators and be incorporated into other squadrons because they wanted some experienced fires there. And theyre off, time i will call, it they were general in the ready room. There were four ready rooms for each of the four squadrons. Those ready rooms were, i was at the york town. It is floating off of patriots point there in south carolina. They are not as large as we might think. Theyre cluttered, but they spend other time, there and that is where they would go to get all of the information before a mission. And in the meantime they would be theyre playing cards, smoking, hes in one another, whatever the case may be. So the aviators that i interviewed tell me that was pretty much our home base. We had hours and then our data farmers have birth. Its a true etc. Those pretty much it. The routine for when they were off the coast of japan. A few hours of intense, lethal activity interspersed with many hours of, lets fill the time with whatever we can. The timeline i think is important. In most popular, memory you have august 6th as that hiroshima bombing and august 9th, as the nagasaki bombing. Of course that led to the japanese decision to surrender. But there is a week plus lull in between, were bombs dropped, and the actual emperors messages broadcast. And i think that gets us to the august 15th mission. Can you give us a little bit of background on that mission . As you said, they were continuing to deliver their pillows on the japanese, because theyre not surrendered. Talk a little bit about that window. And i will ask a followup question when you finish. Sure. First of all the missions. There is a nice map of the final light. Their missions, when they first arrived were against general targets that they wanted to soften up for the invasion. After the adam bombs, the flyers, everybody, the ships, company as well, they want to get out of there. The war is practically over. Lets not keep this up. Why do we need to attack a airfield when a atom bomb has wiped out two cities . If they cannot understand the necessity to go out, and face these anti aircraft batteries. You have to understand whats it is like to fly into that. Theyre shutting straight up at you, and you are diving down, and you cant weave to avoid the fire because the planes have to lock in on their targets. So as one aviator told me, there is no skill to it. It is just luck. Pure luck. We hated every minute of it. But these guys didnt want to sacrificed their lives when the war was going to end, anytime, but they followed orders, obviously. They went on a couple of missions after the atom bombs were dropped, and a couple of guys were killed. August 14th, one of the men recorded in his diary, i hope we dont have to go out on another mission tomorrow. He added a little bit later in his diary, father, moody that was the catholic chaplain, he came by to say the guys were going on a strike. The next morning they had to do that. Hubs was with a team. Hobbes and salem were with a team of 12 hackett fighters. Hops was not supposed to be on the slight. He was scheduled for a later day. Another team of four was supposed to go, but how do you harrison, the team leader, of which hobbes is apart, trade places with that other team, because he said hey, building needs one more mission for promotion to lieutenant. He was an inside. You need one more in order to be promoted to lieutenant. So will you switch with me . The other team was happy to switch. Billy wasnt necessarily overwhelmed with joy at this. But it was arranged, and off they went, even though one of the pilots said is this really necessary . They took off a little bit after 4 00 in the morning. The 12 how cats did. It was a cloudy day, so as they got closer to japan, two of the 12 hell cats were order to a higher altitude so that they could relay messages to and from the character york town. So now the hell cat number was down to ten that proceeded down to the target. After that a team of four led by a guy named marvin oden got lost and his team became lost in they said a finger of overcast. I was never sure what to make of that. It doesnt sound like a very cloudy area, but he became lost and those four planes were now gone. Hellcat number was down to six that continued toward their target, which on the map that was showing is just south of tokyo. A little bit to the northeast of the dotted line there. They continued on toward tokyo and as they got near the airfield, they were getting ready to attack when the commander contacted them and said stop. We just received word the japanese have agreed to cessation of hostilities. Aboard your mission and return to the carrier. Of course, we are going to be going home, all of those thoughts went screaming through their minds. They turned back and you can see on the map just north of the airfield and they were on their way out to tokyo bay when 15 to 20 japanese fighters jumps them and they became involved in a furious dogfight. Joe, one of the men who survived, he said he saw joes plane going down but joe parachuted out. He saw that but thats all he knew. That same pilot saw another hellcat explode in the air. That guy got out by parachuting as well. The other two to be downed that day were smashed into farmland or terrain right around the yokohama area. That left two guys who got back to the carrier yorktown. Four who did not. Four who were shot down. The air group was crestfallen. This was supposed to be our happiest day. The war is over, but it wasnt. It was our saddest day. Not only do we lose for good friends, but we lost them in the final moments. Technically, you could say they were shot down after the war ended because they had been alerted that the japanese had agreed to a cessation of hostilities, but they had not yet officially sign the surrender document. That was in september. So they were crestfallen. One of the survivors, marvin odom, whose team was lost in the overcast said an interesting thing. He heard howdy harrison said to the other guys, once they learn the war is over, lets continue on and take a tour over tokyo and then they got shot down. I spent some time in the book explaining why that was not feasible. First of all, how would odom know what he told those guys because he was going back to the carrier . Second, who is going to take a tour over antiaircraft areas that have been firing away at you all war, now manned by japanese who are angry about surrendering . I talked to a vietnam aviator who flew over 100 missions over North Vietnam and i said if you got that message, lets go on a tour, he said i would turn around on my own and go back. I would never go on a tour. We would get out of there as fast as we can. While that was going on, there were two japanese farmers tending their field and they saw this dogfight occur and one of the planes crashed not far from their field. They went over and inspected. It was a plane in the hundreds of pieces. They contacted japanese officials who came out and when it cooled, they gathered up the remains of a person. But there was no head, no limbs, just a trunk. That was all. No identification could be made. The japanese wrapped it up and carried it to the local buddhist shrine for the monk to take care of. So they properly took care of the remains of whoever that particular pilot was. Everybody in the United States, everybody was celebrating the end of the war. Everybody from the United States, great britain, etc. Everyone home in kokomo they threw an allnight celebration. Cars after midnight drove through town honking their horns. Everybody was having a good time. The hobbes and mandaberg families could not celebrate. They were happy. They assumed their sons were safe because lets face it, what are the odds of my son is going to die in the final moments of war, thats not going to happen, but still cautious. We dont have word yet. Lets wait until we find out. In the coming days, others received words from their loved ones that they were coming home and they did not. In fact, some of the letters written to billy for his birthday, which happen to be august 15, the day he was shot down, that was his