A grateful nation gives thanks for victory. Hundreds of thousands crowd into americas churches to give thanks to god. President truman announced he official surrender, this is a solemn, but glorious our. I wish that franklin d. Roosevelt had live to see this day. General eisenhower informed me that the forces of germany have surrendered, to the united nations. The flags of freedom fly all over europe. For this victory we join in offering our thanks to the providence which is guided and sustained us through the dark days of adversity and into light. Much remains to be done the victory won in the west must now be won in the east the whole world must be cleansed of the evil from which half the world has been freed. United the peaceloving nations have demonstrated in the west that their arms are stronger by far than the might of dictators or the tyranny of military clicks that once called us salt and wheat the power of our people to defend themselves against all enemies will be proved in the pacific war as it was proved in europe. Historic pictures of the last days of the war in europe show american and Russian Troops as they join the river elbow splitting german armies into weeks Red Army General eye meaning that smell that certain german defeat. Inside germany itself the allies sees the famous nuremburg of the capture this famous southern german city, the American Flag instead of the swastikas. In a symbolic gesture american troops destroyed the nazi party emblem. American history tv and washington journal are marking the end of world war ii and the european theater. We welcome Rick Atkinson, his last book focusing on the air 1940 4 19 for five. To get our conversation started on ve day, a quick timeline of where things were, and how they came from dday, on june 6th, 1944, in late august deliberation of paris in august 25th, 1944. The battle of the bulge in december of that year into january of 1945 and then to the east days. Take us back to may 7th and eighth of 1945 . How did the war and in europe . Well, the war ended with the germans basically deciding hitler having killed himself, more than a week earlier, that there was no profit in tracking it out with the russians in berlin. The russians murdering civilians, killing soldiers, german soldiers, by the hundreds of thousands. So, the germans decided that trying to make peace with the western allies, americans in particular, was their best bet. They were going to get a better deal from western allies, then they were going to get from the soviet. So eisenhower had his third headquarters in the french champagne town, in northeastern france. The germans sent a delegation, there was a lot of collaborative out what the conditions would be for a conversation, they were told in no Uncertain Terms unconditional surrender, where the only terms by which the war would end. And so, the operations cheap of their german armed forces, showed up at eisenhowers headquarters, which was a former technical college, a red brick building. Reporters and photographers were there, it was two in the morning, on may 7th, 1945. In the articles of surrender had been boiled down to barely 200 words. The whole ceremony with cameras rolling lasted only about ten minutes. The operations jeep signed, eisenhower told him that he would be personally held responsible for ensuring that the terms of the capitulation were honored. And that was that. Now, it was going to go in effect the next day, may 8th. To give time to alert the german cruise in the atlantic, and the german detachments and norway. The soviets felt that it was important to have a surrender ceremony on german soil. They didnt want the germans to be able to say, as they had a norm warmer one, that they had never been actually defeated. That they had never capitulated, in germany, proper. So they insisted that they need to have yet another surrender ceremony, in a suburb of berlin, which happens on may 9th. So the soviets, now the russians, consider that to be ve day. But for the rest of the world, the surrender went into effect on may 8th, and that was the end of world war in europe. Now, there is still a war in the pacific. And that certainly had a moderating effect, on the other jubilation of the places that took otherwise. No one knew how long that war was gonna go. On that timeline from ve day, in 1944, they define a week to rein europe, based on your research of u. S. Forces and british forces, but that happened sooner than it thought or did it take longer than they thought . You know, it took longer in the sense that after the battle of the bulge and did, at the end of january of 1945, there was a widespread understanding that the germans could not recover from these catastrophe. That they had lost a war. What no one in the west could understand is why they wouldnt give up, why they continued to fight . Why one little town, one medium sized city, and even big cities, continue to resist . There were 10,400 american soldiers killed in action, in april of 1945, in germany. Thats almost as many as were killed in june of 1944, the month of invasion. So it was awful virtually, to the last gunshot. And as a consequence, there was a great consternation, really, about whether they would surrender, whether the last german soldier would have to be killed, whether more german civilians would have to die, and of course weather more allied soldiers were gonna have to die. So, i think there had been hope that the war would and sooner. May a turnout to be the day. Our guest is Rick Atkinson, it is the 75th anniversary of ve day. Would love to hear from you and questions from comments. 202 7488000 for the eastern and central time zones. 202 7488001, mountain and pacific. And for those of you who are world war ii veterans or families, if your parents served in world war ii, we ask you to call on 202 7488002. In your book, Rick Atkinson, i think its really alarming to read the death tolls. In fact, i think in one story right about the training, just training for dday alone. And there was one accident in the training that killed 700 soldiers in that training accident. And looking at the statistics of how many people died, and overall military deaths in world war ii, 417,000 u. S. Deaths. But on the soviet side, 8. 8 million to 10. 7 million soviet soldiers. Thats not just a billion deaths. No, and the soviet union had 190 million people. And its estimated that the totals of the deaths for 26 million. That is a staggering percent, of 13 or 14 of the total population. Hours were bad enough, we had 291,000 killed in action. A little more than 400,000 as you mentioned, all of this including accidents and disease, and so on. Thats about one third of 1 of the American Population of 130 million, during world war ii. So, as staggering as those numbers are for us, they are monumental for the soviets in particular. The germans lose about 7 million people. About 60 Million Deaths worldwide, in world war ii. Thats a deaf every seat three seconds for six years. That gives you an idea of the magnitude. Its the greatest catastrophe, self self inflicted catastrophe in human history. And the war and doing three weeks or so after the death of fdr in georgia, on april 12th, of 1945. Harry truman, the president on ve day, what was the effect stateside when that news came . It was a great shock. Even though anyone who is looking at newsreel footage could see that president roosevelt was not a healthy man. He had been dying for some months. He had a very trip to malta, for a conference with churchill, and then they flew to yalta on the black sea, for a conference with joseph stalin, the soviet leader. And then he went to, even today for look at those pictures, it can tell it here is a man who is dying. His Blood Pressure was in the stratosphere, and he had all kinds of health problems. So he suffers a cerebral hemorrhage, at his cottage, in warm springs, georgia, april 12th, 1945. Right after lunch, the war spread through the country really quickly, and by late afternoon, virtually all americans are aware of it. Its a shock, to everyone. He had been president for more than 12 years. He is our war president. He was a president through the darkest days of the depression. There were young men in uniform who really had very little memory of the time when roosevelt was not their leader, and now their commanderinchief. So no one knew who harry truman was, for the most part. He was an obscure senator from missouri, he had been a captain in the artillery in world war i. Hes a bit of a cipher in the eyes of most americans, with the notion that hes going to step in and fill these very large shoes that roosevelt has left behind. Something that a lot of people had difficulty comprehending. We have lots of calls waiting for, you break atkinson, lets go first to larry, in gallup, new mexico. Larry, good morning. Yes, good morning. My father was in the South Pacific war, in addition, on your research, i wanted to know how much was a role of the american indian, particularly the committees, how much on your research have you done on them, if any, and what was their role during the war . Thank you very much. Thanks for the call, larry, and thanks to your dad. Well, american aid eons were important. First of, all they had a tradition of being warriors. So that was critical when you are trying to put together an army. As you mentioned, there were code talkers navajo, and others who had there in language, and it was assumed correctly, that if a navajo was talking to one other navajo on the radio, that even if the japanese, and were talking about the Pacific Theater in this case, could eavesdrop and hear that conversation, which they could, they werent gonna be able to the coated, because very few japanese spoke navajo. So the cotalkers were important for operational security. I think there was also a fence with american indians, and native americans as part of the force, that it really was a comprehensive american force, in the same way, that we wanted all ethnicities to be represented by 1945. And its a painful process is getting their, to acknowledging that there is a rightful role in combat units for black americans. That black americans can be excellent fighter pilots, as they showed, in the Tuskegee Airmen in alabama, who got into a combat show. So i think for native americans, it was a feeling that first of, all they had some practical skills downward useful. And second, that it is an affirmation that this is a pan american war. From annapolis, maryland, welcome. Yes, hello. My dad fought in world war ii, in the pacific, he had four brothers, all lost in world war ii. A couple of uncles in europe, another uncle who fought in the pacific in the navy. A couple of questions. My dad was a Second Generation telling american, it appears a prejudice against telling americans was less harsh against japanese american. I was wondering why that was true. And the second question, dropping of the atomic bomb probably is the reason im talking to you today. Im wondering how that impact had on the outcome of the war, and the ability of more american soldiers to survive. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Well thanks for the call in the question. Yes, i think its fair to say that the prejudices against italian americans were considerably less, than they were against japanese americans. The italians, of course, were our adversaries, at least up until 1943 when they switch sides, and became our ally. But the italians had not launched the kind of attack that had a curled with pearl harbor, when the japanese truck of december 1941. I think there is also a racial component to, it frankly. I think it was easier to dislike asians, the japanese specifically. So of course, they were treated dreadfully. We were just talking about native americans in the force. While they were of course japanese americans who fought valiantly in italy, and france, during world war ii. They were exceptionally capable and ferocious fighters. And they had something to prove, because back home, there had been tens of thousands of japanese who had been interned in camps. Treated not only a secondclass citizens, but as non citizens. With respect to the atomic bombs, yes, i think that the fact that the two atomic bombs dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki in early august, of 1945, brought on into the war in the pacific. It probably saved hundreds of thousands of american lives. And when ve day occurs on may 8th, 1945, one of the reasons that the jubilation is not more than it was, is that the battle is occurring precisely then. It is a cave by cave bloodletting. And this foreshadows what the toll is going to be in attacking the japanese home islands, directly. There were estimates that american casualties could rise as much as 1 million, if that were required. And of course, the atomic bombs, and when ve day occurs, in may of 1945, no one knows about the atomic bombs except a small group of businesses, and others in new mexico. But no one knows whether it may or not work. So those bombs, as horrible as they were, in my estimation, brings the war to an absolute truncated and. Appropriately, it saves Many American lives. It saves even more japanese lives. Russians were ready to come in. The war was going to expand, in the pacific, because the russians had agreed to be part of it. So the atomic bombs saved a lot of heartache. We are talking about the end of world war ii, in the european theater. The 75th anniversary of ve day. And joining us, is a world war ii veteran, from davidson, oklahoma. Hello. Good morning, youre on the air. Thank you. Yes, i was over there on may the 6th, 1945. And we got on the ship on may the 15th, headed for the pacific. We stopped by the United States, we would fly in v 24s and we would train on b 29 for a couple of weeks and go into the pacific. During that period of time, they dropped the bomb and ended the war in the pacific. We bombed all of europe from a b24 base in italy. Heath, great to have you with us. Thank you for your story. Rick, how quickly was the military able to pivot the focus on the Pacific Theater . Well, the commanders in europe in one in washington had been thinking about how to take a good portion of that force, and move it to the pacific, and how you would do, that and who would go. It wasnt fair for those who had been fighting and north africa, beginning of 1942, and then in italy 1943 and 44. For them to have to then go fight in the pacific. So there were plans that had been put together. There were in fact units that were being shift shifted, as he just said, in may of 1945. They were getting ready to retrain for the assault on the japanese homeland. The b 29 he mentioned, was the newest of the long range bombers, they were doing extraordinary work in devastating japan. B29 were used to drop the two atomic bombs. So i was believe that you would have to take a good portion of that european force, leaving some behind of, course as an army of occupation. But the majority of it and was going to end up in the pacific, one way or another. In the wall street journal, there is a photo of generalizing flower flashing the v for victory pins, at the signing ceremony. Rick atkinson, one of your early interviews with cspan in 2000 and, two on your first book, army at dawn, you said that in a different photograph of ike, theres a photograph reflected of certain buoyancy of spirit that i think served him well. You are writing your final, book the guns that last, light his fellow commanders, some of the other allied commanders, were not confident that i was necessarily the commander type. There were friction, there is no doubt about it. And the british, in particular, hideouts about eisenhower. Not all of, them some of them revered him. He had difficulties, really, through the entire final year of the war. With field marshal montgomery, who is a senior british commander in europe. A very difficult character, it must be said. So there were those who had doubts about eisenhower, there were those who hideouts about when he had began the theater commander in the mediterranean, in late 1942. He had never heard a shot fired, he and his class had missed world war i. They had not been deployed. So there was a feeling that who is disgusting and why is he the line to be the Supreme Commander . My feeling is, i lived with Dwight Eisenhower metaphorically for 15 years, in my admiration for him grew every year, during that span. He was an extraordinarily capable war leader. He was extremely capable political general. His primary job was to hold together this fractious allied coalition. Eventually there were more than 50 countries in what was called by franklin the united nations, fighting with the United States. And eisenhower was brilliant, and Holding Together that coalition, against all of the century puddle forces that tried to pull apart every wartime coalition. So you know, eisenhowers honors at the end of the, war i think are fairly earned. He showed himself to be a capable ally commander, a warning commander, and that big smile of his, which one of the subordinate said was worth at least an army courts in moral terms. It was fairly earned, in may of 1945. Lets hear from tom, next st. Petersburg, florida. Tom, youre on the air. Hello. My name is, tom and the reason im calling is, i often wondered who engineered the end of the war . Was it admiral doorknobs, and secondly, did he honestly believe throughout his entire career that his losses in the atlantic were not caused by the anemic machine . And thirdly, what happened to him at the end of the war . Well thats a lot of questions. General dornis was our commander at the end of the war, there was much left to command by that point. The german submarine force had been almost completely destroyed, by may of 1945. In terms of who engineered the end of the war, well, there were conversations among those who are still surviving in berlin, and northwest of berlin. About how to go about contacting the allies, and how to go about bringing this catastrophe to a close. Hitler having killed himself on april 30th, had essentially tried to pull the temple down around him as he perished. But not everyone was willing to take that route. Not everyone was suicidal. So there had been, basically, an agreement that would send a delegation to highlight headquarters. First, they went to montgomery, then they end up, as i mentioned, in eisenhowers french headquarters. All of this catches if you can, they were making it up as they go along. They were very aware that every day that passes, there are more germans who fall under soviet control. And they stay are determined to avoid. They are trying to stall as long as i can t