Healthy as any of us can possibly be given the truly crazy world in which we live at the moment. I am scott henkel, i am the director of the wyoming institute and im so happy to welcome you to tonights thing can drink. The topic of which is, pandemic and historical perspectives. So i am so happy to introduce dr. Melissa morris who is assistant professor of history in american studies here at the university of wyoming and a member of the Humanities Research institute here committee who will be a moderator tonight and who will introduce our speakers. So please wear. Thank you, scott. And thank you to all of our panelists for agreeing to participate. Who i know our later time zones so thank you for sticking with us. And of course to all of you out there tuning in in some form or another. Im just going to do a brief introduction to our panelists and then i will let them each talk for a couple of minutes more about how their work intersects with what we are doing tonight. We so first we have Michael Christopher flow who is a history professor and he is the author of imperial mecca when the indian ocean from Columbia University in september. Exciting. Well next we have Felicia Mitchell who is a ph. D. Candidate and New York University and her work focuses on slavery and medicine for about 1500 1800. She is the author of a recent piece on perhaps whats earlier pandemics can teach us about our Current Crisis that appeared in the magazine and third up we have jacob steerewilliams, who was an associate professor of history at the college of charleston. He specializes in the history of science, medicine, disease and is working on a book that examines scientific attitudes and cultural constructions of typhoid fever in the 19th century. He is also an editor of the journal of the history of medicine and allied sciences. So i will hand it over to them to offer kind of a brief perhaps a little bit more of an overview of their work and how it intersects with our theme here tonight. We can just go in the order that i introduced you. I suppose, if that works . We thank you for having us. So my work centers around how the playing in the late 19th and early 20th century as i have focused on primarily to mecca. Sort of looking at the ways in which the sort of ecological fallout of british columbianism and indian ocean impacted the Ottoman Empire and of course really stilled over and became a truly global issue in the late 19th century. Also my work has sort of spun off in a couple of Different Directions but most notably i have written some about salivation technology, which is starting to being used as one of the solution to this problem related to the rayburn peninsula, the water is sort of the welsh spring of life in the peninsula. So that is sort of the second project sprung out of this initial pandemic when it entails to. Thank you so much for having us. So yeah my work focuses most broadly on the intersections of slavery and the slave trade in medicine in the early modern americas. But my current project focuses on smallpox and slavery specifically enslaved africans experiences of different Public Health interventions geared towards curtailing smallpox in the slave trade such as quarantines. And also their experiences with smallpox inoculation both with indigenous west african practices and west africa and different parts of the caribbean. Because a slave trade took enslaved people to variety of different locations in americas and with different folks across the region. I look at spanish, french, caribbean territories to put together what the implications of different Public Health interventions in the implication of different smallpox academics were in the period before 1800. So before the invention of the smallpox vaccine. So i have spent probably about a decade researching the history of typhoid fever and the ride of epidemiology in victorian britain. Typhoid has been this interesting disease for me to look at because it has also been seen around cholera and useful sanitation. Whats so what is interesting in my research so interesting in my research on typhoid is the role of British Colonialism and the process. In the colonial some, previctorian era it was seen as a british disease, a disease that people in by the end of the 19th century it would be seen as a disease for which clone elysium but across the world so its a local disease visavis these flood draconian processes so i have a tie for this coming up a little bit later, in september with university of rochester. In my second project that im working on right now will be out in may, early 19th, 20th century British Colonial era in india. A lot of sections here. I agree, so couple of you have kind of started to touch on this, but as a broad opening question i thought that i would ask you know, what parallels do you see between your own time period. Of course being careful as historians. But between your own time period that you study and maybe some things that are happening today. Whoever wants to go first. I will jump in and take a stab at that one. One of the things that this struck me in the last few weeks is really the peril about testing. And for cholera, really cholera leads on to the global stage and we start to get outbreaks moving from the start of the gantrys delta. In the 18 twenties, 18 thirties, certainly by the 18 sixties cholera is on the global radar and is impacting not only india, the middle east, europe, but also making its way all the way to north america. One of the things that i think is really interesting is from these early periods. 18 thirties towards the 18 eighties and nineties is that everybody was by. And nobody understood the virology, that immunology, really how cholera works and spreads. So for the better part of three decades in the middle part of might work of a British Empire that ultimately denies that india is the source of cholera. And you have eight bleaker Ottoman Empire thats really following the best medical, current medical advice of europe and falling lots of people like robert cohen. And yet they are being blamed by the British Empire said that mecca is this front of color and not india. So the blame game internationally and lack of clarity about how the disease works is strikingly similar to me. Im going to jump in next and say in a somewhat way that the pipeline aspect is very similar to some of the early outbreaks today. Around 500 years ago, the americas saw their first documented smallpox outbreak. In 15 19, 15 twenties, at that time smallpox was a novel virus. Summer to have the current versus a novel virus globally. So medical practices didnt have experience with that disease specifically prior to this. So this being a uncharted territory and not having a vaccine or any kind of medical record having to figure out along the way the medical practices that are similar but then the other one which is heartbreaking, but also expected given that this is the demographic hurt most by the disease. The racial demographic around other communities being affected much more so. As well as the devastating impact that its having on their native American Communities in the u. S. As well as a broad. It is very, very similar to what i studied and it has everything to do with the way that labor is performed in america. The socioeconomic disparities that we have. As well as the different communities that put them up for the risk of contracting this disease. And the fact that there wasnt a conscience effort early on to have any Public Health interventions even that preserving the lives of native and black people in the u. S. Looking at that in the past we were black and needed people paid the top of the cost of different colonial strategies, that is worth acknowledging. Those are the dissimilarities that i have seen. Definitely. Thanks so much. Just to dovetail, with the perspective of a couple of themes that weve heard from. One is the question that chris brought up about internationalism. Super interesting and how it parallels. This interesting phenomenon that happens in 1851 with the rise of the international sedentary conferences of the United States and turkey coming together, trying to think about the spread of cholera, the spread of the played. And if you think of measures of quarantine and global politics, and what is so fascinating if you look at those international standings, is one, how much uncertainty there is like chris mentioned. To, even when they vote on issues and try to come up with global regulations the diplomats and the way home to their home countries they go to the right place anyway. Its super acknowledgment that internationalism has a response to pandemics is something that is a positive public good. But putting it into practice is restraint. Its constrained by global politics. By labor certainly. So that certainly one theme. Number two, in this other one, it at least brings up about libra and the uneven ways in which antipandemic practices gets spread out evenly. Particularly by race. Thats something thats focused and my current project in south africa and india. If you look at the antiplayed practices in the colonial nations what you see is that indigenous harbingers of played. But then also doing the antiplayed work every day work of using distancing methods, abusing dangerous chemicals. I think you are seeing that parallel today that incident having shelter in place quarantine measures, there is real on the ground leap happening as well and its disproportionately in this country and around the world. Im going to pick up off on this note of how the seasons are thought of, and effective or otherwise in combatting this disease from an 1851. What other ideas are circulating in your project on how to fight disease, or where diseases come from . One of the things that emerges in my work as i guess, as jacob mentions internationalism, one of the big things in my work here is that internationalists are taken seriously, they want to be viewed as a power player in europe and taken seriously. Have their sovereignty protect under international law. So they really try to play the game of internationalism whereas the british are sort of the big bad in this story. Its weak internationalism cant restrain british free trade which refuses to be caught in any International Legal agreements which forced them to quarantine or force them to restrict they were mobility or pilgrimage mobility in my case. This becomes a real stumbling block for effective controls. There were certainly times where it would have been appropriate to restrict mobility. Whether it be european. Traders muslim pilgrims or migrants. Either for free trade or fear of backlash among their subjects that often refused to do so. So, gosh that is such a tough question to unpack because people have very different ideas of what diseases were and with the significance was packed and then we do now. So for smallpox, i guess i would say that the most obvious question that i get asked is whether or not the disease was racialized. For those who study needed people all recognize that this is a disease that almost anyone could contract especially if they havent had before. Pretty early on. Of course folks from different control backgrounds scrub different meanings for it sometimes they had even geopolitical connotations or faith connotations. In west africa as well as in the americas, many of them practiced smallpox inoculation as a preventer eat from of immunization that was from one person putting incision on another person. Usually performed on children. For europeans, western europeans werent really familiar with any form of immunization practices until the early 18th century. It was a big part of turkey, middle east, and in the early 18th century it was a uneven adoption. Folks in the americas were more willing to experiment with it and adopt it early in the 18th century. I think in large part because of their contact with west africans and their familiarity with the practice. But western europeans didnt really practice until the mid 18th century. Then it was in use much more prior to that. They tended to rely on small pox quarantines which similar to the practices that we are doing now, still leave anyone infected in a vulnerable position and doesnt do anything to prevent the disease from spreading if it already is. And so a big part of my work is focusing on that quarantines and quarantining and there places like the sleeve trade in the coastal places across latin america. So i guess that is answer the question. That is interesting as well. You talk about the way in which race impacted discussions about slavery and smallpox. At the same time, there is yellow fever happening here as well which is racialized and its super interesting. If i try to think through what is happening in the late 19th century with a lead in india and south africa, you talk about differential blame, seen a phobia and labor. Im going to try to cheer a stream. Thats the same old. It may not work. One of the things that is so fascinating to me which i found is this photograph from 1988 which depicts it tipping station in karachi, the port city, central to the British Empire in this period. It is a photograph that shows human played officials with indians in karbala. What is so interesting to me about this example and i was floored when it was happening, both in india and south africa, at this time, is this really harrowing photograph. Its the only photograph that i found that existed it was no to burn the skin. Right. Heres this photo where they are in the middle of a pandemic. This chronic played a sweeping through the globe. Its disrupting life and trade. Theres also this new bacterial life. Theres knowledge about the fearless and theres knowledge about the human connection. And yet the response is this heavily racialized response that blames the indigenous for spreading the disease. Its a colonial Public Health type of practice. Im thinking about the visuals that are happening here. I think they helped a nuance and contextualized libra practices that are super long standing. Thanks. Its interesting to piggyback on this issue with played and certainly cholera and played were running concurrently. All of these International Sanitary conferences, be enshrined European Mobility and continue to protect trade, and european troop movements and tended to demonize have migrants from places like china and india. This is the one of the ways that i have about immunity passports is that we end up not really with something that covers or really things carefully about immunity but instead just is another way to practice these racial inequalities. If i could just jump in really quick and say these are ways we sort of in shrine your pin mobility is important because part of the reason why european colonial officials were creating different policies was because a slave trade can continue. The perfect solution to stop making smallpox on ships is to stop and saving people. That is not what anybody was interested at the time. Sort of developing these different kind of Public Health policies that allowed for things to continue along he certain quote unquote, normal in the way that people are trying to figure out how we can get back to a normal before that we realized now, at least at the current pandemic, its not sustainable or safe for everyone in the first place. I am glad that this question of immunity came up because its obviously something people are talking about so much now like how do you prove immunity . Is does having the disease confirm immunity . So its interesting to see and not perhaps on surprising that those were concerns in previous areas as well. Another thing i want to ask you all about was kind of the broader effects that pandemics have had. Elise, in your piece that you published recently you talk a lot about how, you know, the pandemic is one thing but some of the other knock on effects of pandemics that are actually more detrimental to society and certainly in our own time there is the question of you know, one of the economic effects are what are the other effects . Im wondering if you could all speak to that in your own era. Michael, if you want to go . Okay, i will jump in. So in the piece i talk about how for the smallpox outbreak that i study, if they spied up into epidemics, oftentimes they were preceded by famine because, you know, so many of the people who are part of the labor in process, or other bound laborers, were often the ones most impacted so they were either unable to work order to many people perished for them to be able to work. A lot of times densely populated urban spaces, there are several examples where i read that they said where the officials report that some households were left without a living soul so massive depopulation and an end to different aspects of social cultural and Spiritual Life was often a big thing. I mean im working on early modern period and focused a lot on liberian and french colonization. You know the Catholic Church is a big part of thats a lot of people were implementing the end of religious ceremonies. The fact that people died or woke up without having last rights and things like that. They were also incredibly disruptive to trade and commerce. All manner of trade and commerce so in some cases the small island and territories that i studied were pretty dependent on getting particular supplies from other places in the supply chain. Look at cut off and that would mean that people had to go without different foods or goods for a long period of time. Those are some of the biggest impacts in addition to like the variety of emotional things that come along. Just to sort of try and think about pandemics as sort of swirl of comorbidities. I mean a lot of what i think about for autumn in arabia, the large part of the muslim world, is that British India is sort of again its a swirl of conditions that are conducive to not just cholera outbreaks, played, malaria, famine of course and this sort of synergy between these things sort of helps to further the possibility of further outbreaks. The other thing i would say is sort of piggybacking on some of the blame games that are at foot at the moment sort of playing with statistics. One example that i like to use is the british like to play down cholera depth. They would often report