and what we need to keep out of society. >> we don't want them out, do we, judge? >> we shouldn't. in most cases we do not. sociopath, violent murderers and rapists, they do. >> they get out? >> yes, they do. they are sent back into our community and i'm with pat there. particularly if they have a psychological or mental illness, they certainly should not be released back into society. but one of the things i want to make an observation about is, that going into prison has a real effect on leaving. in other words, when you go in and you're less educated, 80% have no ged or high school diploma, there were no jobs in your community, full of poverty, drugs and despair. you go in, you get no training, no education. you come back out sicker and slicker than you were before you went in and victimize the community the same way. >> larry: dog, wouldn't you agree with that? >> oh, i agree, thicker and slicker.