and i have indicated to you that i was negligent. i made a mistake. i have tried to right it and that's all i can do. >> because it does seem to scream credibility to say that you, as a public official, didn't understand that it just ethically -- whether or not you read the rules that ethically there would be a problem with giving money to your grandsons for several years when there are other kids out there who could have gotten that money. >> other kids? >> who weren't, by the way -- your grandkids weren't even living in your district or going to school in your district. >> how do you want me to answer that? i made a mistake. >> as a public official, how do you know that that's not ethically right? >> say what? >> as a public official who has been in congress for a long time, how do you know that that is not ethically right? whether or not you read the rules but basic ethics. >> you're talking about the last three or four years. >> i'm talking about five years that you've been doing this that we know about. >> well, the only thing i can