of the congressional black caucus foundation board. and there's not a major philanthropic organization that doesn't have rules against self dealing. >> even if she didn't know the rules of this particular scholarship, which again strains credibility, anybody in public office, you know that giving things, money to your relative who doesn't even live in the district, that's got to raise questions. if it doesn't raise questions for her, which i find impossible to believe for a person sitting in congress for nine terms, it's got to raise questions for people on her staff. this didn't just happen once. it happened year after year after year. there would have to be a big turnover of her staff and they knew people had to come in and say, wait a minute. we're giving money to her grandkids? >> i suppose you could argue that once the mistake was made in 2005, it might have been easier to make the same mistake