>> rosalind, you work in a lot of schools, is that what you're pushing? >> for 20 years i've been trying to get into programs and working with schools to put content into these programs. and if we make it so generalized and just talk about kids should be nice to each other, our children are not only going to laugh at us, they're also going to think we're incompetent. and that's not acceptable when they're so desperate for our help. these neutral programs don't do it. >> he's saying, tom is saying, address the problem, address the bullying. you don't need to necessarily talk about gays and lesbians in specific. >> you cannot address bullying without addressing homophobia. you can't do it. because so many children are proving that they have to belong, that they are not gay, that they have to be silent in the face of cruelty. so they don't get this comment of, don't be gay, don't be a fag. so if we don't address this in ways kids can relate to and visualize and that they think we know what we're talking about,