they still maintain the disinformation program. and they are right now probably finding some way to try to get into the system. it was not hacking up until relatively recently. now it is hacking. but they have used different technologies over the years and over the decades. this is not new that they are trying to damage western democracy. >> general hertling what do you make of the possibilities of the u.s. to retaliate? >> there is no possibility anderson. we're in the midst of a cybercampaign right now. it is not all out cyberwarfare. when i was commander a few years ago it was an element of our defense of europeampaign right . it is not all out cyber warfare. when i was commander a few years ago it was an element of our defense of europe. we've seen many examples of