>> one of the things the u.s. says is they'll release what how the russians were hacking us. >> what's the benefit of doing that? >> there's a benefit of doing that to let everybody know we're for real. the down side of doing that is that the same time russians will also know what our capabilities where of monitoring what they're doing. so they change that way of doing it because they know we have the ability to watch them operate against us and they -- and that they know we've done that. and everybody knows we've done that. that changes the whole modality of how this cyber defensive war, shall we say is operating. when i was in estonia with the nato cyber command, one thing they said was there were a lot of defensive measures we can take. we're not necessarily going on the offense. going on the offensive can touch off a cyber war and then we're