in ftp inferentially, it appears that's where he is going. what is significant to me is a prominent trump camp official meeting with a russian intelligence official, and it doesn't matter whether he's active or retired because those guys never really retire. and that to me, just the fact of the meeting when you sort of of piece that together with all the other pieces of the puzzle, is one more indicator of the direction that special counsel is taking. >> so the fact of these conversations between rick gates and maybe paul manafort and this person who had contacts and connections and maybe at one point had been an agent for the gru, does that in and of itself constitute collusion for you? >> it doesn't necessarily constitute the substance of collusion because just like the