election. you buying it? >> i'm afraid not. first of all, trump had a reputation with regard to these types of liaisons that pre-existed and also followed these disclosures. but more importantly, giuliani himself undermined that argument. at first he said this was all about saving the marriage and then he immediately contradicted himself and said it wasn't about the marriage. it was about his reputation. and then the next day, could you imagine if this had gotten out during the presidential debates. >> october '15. >> right. >> so he himself can't seem to maintain a coherent narrative. this isn't rocket science. you sit down and you create your narrative for defense. the only thing you have to do is preserve its clarity and coherence. giuliani -- >> i know, but i have to say this, professor. he's a smart guy. mayor giuliani is a smart guy. so i continue to give him the benefit of the doubt wondering,