president heads been impeached and is out of office, if that were to happen, then any against him as it relates to what happened while he was in office. let's get back to the pardon power. whether the president can pardon himself, the constitution is very clear that the president has broad pardon powers. in fact, they debated whether or not the senate should have a say in this when they were drafting those provisions and said no, they shouldn't have a say in this. >> although -- >> so to the extent the president has pardon powers, it's a novel legal argument as to whether he can claim himself. >> michael zeldin was on earlier and pointed to a court document from 1974, in which basically it was put out there, this idea of the president pardoning himself courts. i'd have to ask him to tell me the exact article that it was that he was referencing. but jim, you mentioned