>> you're saying after the probe is over, it may be cleaned up with any pardons. >> i want to bring in our guest. so page, this is kind of dangling the carrot, even if it's after the investigation or at whatever juncture. how problematic is that potentially? does that, you know, skirt too close to witness tampering, even obstruction by even saying that it's a possibility? >> we've not seen anything like this before. the constitution gives the president very broad pardon powers. he can pardon anyone, arguably even himself, for almost any reason. but i think mr. giuliani is correct to be concerned about the optics of using that pardon now while the investigation is still ongoing before manafort has been convicted. if you're using the pardon to keep someone from being