>> let me say -- >> so they risk it all for something better. >> let me say for the record i did not support the child separation policy. i do not believe that crossing the border is a crime equivalent to a capital crime or a serious crime, a felony, that would deserve somebody to be separated from their child. not all -- it is a crime to cross the border illegally. >> it's a misdemeanor. you do it a second time, it's a felony. but the reason the bush administration and the obama administration didn't do it this way, chris -- and this is an important point. i'll see if you want to own your understanding on this as well. they didn't do it because they knew if they did, they would be overwhelmed. and even though bush built facilities -- i had chertoff on the other night talking about it. they knew they'd be over capacity. they knew it was too harsh. they knew it was a message they didn't want to send to the world. donald trump took a different tack. he wanted the harshness. he didn't have the administration prepared for it, and we got a catastrophe. >> chris, i don't think donald