we know he had taken a hostage from the original incident with his grandmother. so he does have somebody he's got in his custody right now. negotiators are working through that process, while the tac team is getting ready, okay, how do we make this hard entry into this trader joe's. >> i want to go back to national correspondent miguel marquez. miquel, what are you learning? >> reporter: a security guard who was on the scene said they were chasing him down that side street. it was in there he got stuck, he crashed, he ran into the parking lot. two shots, says the security guard, were fired by the suspect at police, and then police fired back. at least four shots.