collusion doesn't have to be criminal to be a national security threat. she mentioned the russians were hacking information, trying to weaponize it to promote candidates to help russia. and anyone who worked with them secretly to facilitate or encourage it is colluding, whether they meet the elements for conspiracy is a different story. but i think we have to remember that there is a national security aspect to this as well as a criminal aspect. >> but that national security aspect, i mean that doesn't -- i mean that would really only come into play in terms of impeachment proceedings, wouldn't it? or are you saying that would have legal implications as well? >> well t could have legal implications. we see there are tools that are used on the intelligence side like fisas and other techniques that have a lower threshold precisely because we're looking at the security of the united states, not necessarily trying to pursue criminal charges. when what they see crosses into the criminal realm, you're going