the document makes clear they believe what michael cohen said about the president is true. >> is it illegal for somebody to be dangling or hinting or even discussing, having attorneys discuss the possibility of pardon? >> i don't know. we haven't had an obstruction case based on the offering of a pardon. we're in new territory here. it could be if it was direct enough. if it was for the purpose of getting him not to cooperate with a legitimate investigation. i think it's possible. it's very hard. the pardon powers are very broad. he would say he was pardoning him for other reasons. that goes back to some of the tweets. the president said over and over that manafort is being treated unfairly. he kept tweeting this is so unfair. that's what he said every time he pardoned someone. he's kind of setting the stage. sg you can >> having this conversation and