are eager to at least establish a contact, a relationship, just even a meeting face to face. but really the context of the conversations are general or should be. >> any meetings that get beyond general would have to be run by the current or outgoing administration? >> absolutely. there is -- the rule of thumb honestly -- the gold standard for transitions is the one in 2008 between george w. bush and barack obama. that set the standard for relationships, conversations between an outgoing administration and an incoming. there always were, obviously, presidential transition processes before that. honestly, the first post-911 transition in 2009 set a different standard on how the outgoing and incoming administrations have regular contact with each other and work very closely with each other so