and -- i mean. i was talking to someone who will be on the show. it's a very clarifying moment. and i agree with him. it's a clarifying she had to go to the truth of her own background. that her family, that she knows what real need is. she knows what penny pinching is, that's true about her. >> i don't doubt that about her, but her defense of him, not so good. >> rick santorum. i don't think he gets it. >> i'll see you at the top of the hour and we'll go over this whole let them eat cake, if you can call it that. i think it's actually worse than that. we're going to break it all down. >> see you in a minute. >> all right. so, what do we know? we know the shutdown was wrong.