about,if you were making something up, why not go for broke and say, you heard them talk about the meeting and so he was restrained in certain ways. those are things consistent with truth telling. he's a damaged witness and convicted of perjury before congress but i think it was a good day for him on the whole. >> and evan, as i just played that sound bite, when he said ten briefings in total and saying that those were to ivanka and don jr. and what is the significance of that in the broader context, evan? >> the significant there is i think the democrats on that committee may want to test exactly what ivanka trump and what donald trump jr. meant in whatever previous answers they've given to that very question. look, i think what we know so far is that the answer -- at least from the trump side has been that their communication about this project ended in