line, everybody else is talking about reset buttons and redlines. putin only knows he could do it and he's good to get away with it. and the rest will still be like talking about strong condemnations and grave concerns. and probably putin is just, you know, testing the response. >> to that, biden warned of devastating consequences if navalny is -- if he dies in prison. what would you consider devastating consequences to be? >> i'd better don't want to know because i don't want alexei navalny to die in prison. on one hand -- >> but what consequences would deter vladimir putin or encourage him to make sure that alexei navalny stays alive? >> well, that's a very good question. i believe that the real things that could deter mr. putin from