disappeared. >> but our manufacturing out put is up. >> bill: but we're making it overseas so the people in wisconsin and michigan can't have those jobs. unless they want to move down to guatemala. >> they get new jobs, that comes back for new jobs, for new jobs to be created. >> bill: somewhat. >> in the recession it has been a job creating machine. >> bill: they were in the public service and tech sector, manufacturing is shot. you can make a good claim union labor killed manufacturing in the u.s.a., could you not? >> yes you could but not just the cost but the work rules. wisconsin, if you want to put up a bulletin board in the collective bargaining agreement, they have like a 70 page rule how big it has to be and where it has to be, the union rules are stringent. >> bill: let's get back to the folks. are you saying you believe most americans are clueless about