we subjected three al qaeda terrorists to these techniques, before we do that, ksm was not saying a word. he was silent. after we subjected him to the eit's he started to break. the point is once we broke him, i don't care if we got the courier's name one minute after he was waterboarding or one year after he was waterboarded. the point is the e.i.d.'s broke him. >> the factor standing by the story we broke last night. we are standing behind it we believe it's true with 100% certainty. that's it. >> 183 times he was waterboarded. it didn't do much time. >> it worked. >> bill: secretary rumsfeld if you want to come on we have a slot for you. promote your book and do what you want. see what he says. is that fair enough? directly ahead, former member of