as far as gutsy calls, legislatively, he hasn't made a lot of them. >> it will be interesting. i think that immigration is sort of a sidetrack at this point. worth speaking to the democratic base. more about trying to motivate voters for next year. but the deficit and the debt reduction package is going to be the next big, the next big test of his leadership. that willingness to take risks. >> bret: do you agree? >> it is. but every indication he has given up until now is he in the willing to make the kind of severe -- take severe serious measures the way he avoided all of it in his "state of the union" address arndt budget and then in the speech that was supposed to be plan that would counter the republican plan. there was nothing in that. i think he strategically decided he would demagogue republican proposal and not do anything on his side.