killing osama bin laden, but those programs saved american lives. we know now because of declassified intelligence that those programs helped us to prevent terror attacks on this nation. >> sean: he opposes enhanced interrogation, uponned to close gitmo, said he would do it on day 1. didn't happen. he opposed rendition. we interviewed jose rodriguez. he was there when -- when the waterboarding, the enhanced interrogations occurred. i asked him, would we have been able to find bin laden if we had not used the intelligence-gathering that obama opposed. here's his answer. you don't think we would have gotten bin laden without the interrogation methods? >> there was a clear trail, a facilitator we captured in 2004, that told us about bin laden's courier and gave us a pseudonym--