and i had to pass not just him, but an internal examiner and an external examiner and that was hard. >> in 2011 when notre dame ran a symposium to celebrate his work, he recalled your study under him and you said "it was a time when legal giants roamed among oxford spires." you called him one of the great scholars. >> oxford has a stable -- and it's one of the reasons it was such a privilege. i was a kid from colorado, i had a scholarship to go to oxford, i had never been to england, to europe before, oxford at that time, they had john finis, joe raz, ronald dworkin, hla hart was still alive. >> let me read a couple statements from professor finis. in 2009, he wrote about england's population.