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Wonderful people. it takes too long for people to exercise their seventh amendment liberties and i can tell you together with my colleagues, we have found representation of des unacceptable in our circuit. a whole bunch of us, i can't take too much credit. we try to do something about it. i can tell you that when prisoners come to court and post a hand written complaints and i see something that might be meritorious in them, i appoint counsel. role. >> can you describe your relationship with professor john finis? >> sure, he was my dissertation supervisor. >> when did you first meet? >> whenev...

And i had to pass not just him, but an internal examiner and an external examiner and that was hard. >> in 2011 when notre dame ran a symposium to celebrate his work, he recalled your study under him and you said "it was a time when legal giants roamed among oxford spires." you called him one of the great scholars. >> oxford has a stable -- and it's one of the reasons it was such a privilege. i was a kid from colorado, i had a scholarship to go to oxford, i had never been to england, to europe before, oxford at that time, they had john finis, joe raz, ronald dworkin, hla hart was still alive. ...

Finis wrote about purity and culture in such is it something we should condemn or congratulate? >> senator, before i expressed any of you on that, i'd want to read it and i would want to read it from beginning to end, not an expert. senator, i've had a lot of professors, i've been blessed with some wonderful professors. i didn't agree with every thing they said, and i wouldn't expect them to agree with every thing i've said. >> let me ask you this specifically. it was 1993 and you're at oxford and this is when we believe you first met this professor. professor finis was then tapped by the soli...