julie: all of us, of course, would like to see this end peacefully. many believe we do not want to get involved in a war with north korea. but we also need to listen to kim jong un and his threats and take them seriously to prevent. he at one point, pyongyang had said during the, you know, nuclear non-proliferation treaty -- which, obviously, failed. all talks have always failed. pyongyang would never return to talks. are easing sanctions or putting pressure in the relief of aid by withholding aid s that really going to be enough to stop them from trying to move forward with their nuclear program? >> it depends on what type of sanctions you're talking about. the stuff which is kind of like a mosquito bite, or the stuff which actually matters. and that's where i go back to the question of oil. if you don't have oil in the american economy, guess what? things stop. and guess what? the north korean economy, small as it is, is kind of the same.