connection, these charges, with that case. i suppose it's possible that mueller is going scatter shod here. this doesn't jive with his reputation in washington, which is someone who is very much a straight shooter who is going to bring charges very limited based on the facts that he has and the charge that he has. so i think this is the beginning of the story not necessarily the end of it. >> sandra: there is an important distinction to make as we continue to learn the details of all this and the charges involved. no links to trump, no links to 2016 election or collusion. as people try to wrap their minds around what we are learning and hearing coming out of this right now, what does it mean? what does it mean for the trump agenda? >> well, maybe no direct connections but remember, these -- the timeline of which these charges are looking at and the investigation was looking at goes into past manafort's time working as the campaign chair.