else he said in that interview. >> he did not in my view do a good job of managing the people under him, there was a lot of leaking out of the state department and the president do it and it was not helpful. most of that ended up making the state department look good. >> sounds like he was talking about you and many others in the state department, blaming you for leaks, blaming colin powell for not managing his department. >> we were doing the same about him. i remember walking into rich arm tank's office and him characterizing that group as a group of nazis. let me tell you how we started off trying to do things. got instructions in summer of 2001 to start again what george marshall and george tenet had, joint staff policy planning talks. state and defense talking to each other regularly. i did.