frankly, stupid, e-mails. that's one i regret. i've apologized for it. i apologize tonight for it. it was just a stupid move. >> one of your rackets was indian tribes, representing indian tribes and playing the casino game on one side or the other, trying to help some of them get permission to run casinos, trying to prevent other tribes getting permission to run casinos, because that would compete with your tribe, casino. and in one of those non-compete games, you ended up in a situation with ralph reed, and they asked you under oath in the senate committee, kent conrad asked you, he said, "i would like to ask, did you, mr. abramoff, you and your partner, your colleague, mr. scanlon, give $4 million to ralph reed?" and you pled the fifth amendment on that and didn't answer that. did you give $4 million to ralph reed? >> yeah, we provided -- ralph reed was a very important vendor in terms of our effort to slow down competition for our tribes.