conch. but within the medicare program, we're trying to move toward prevention, to make sure that seniors and others covered are going to learn early on what the challenges might be. >> senator, with all due respect, yo uh sound an awful like trying to nail down eric cantor yesterday on what taxes you're willing to raise. all you're doing is telling us obama care is good, you want gaps -- again, i'm talking to the man who actually had the courage to vote for simpson/bowles when one of my heroes, paul ryan would not. so i give you great respect for the courage you've shown in the past. but if we're just going to talk this way and sort of stake out our positions on our side, we should probably move on to afghanistan or another issue. >> joe, let me be specific. what we did in simpson/bowles was to set targets for savings in this health care programs, and we must do it. and then sit down and say what are the changes we can make within the programs that don't challenge their integrity but basically reduce their costs. and we can do those.