>> reporter: i think the key thing to take away is that he did not see mr. gray, he couldn't have seen mr. gray. i asked him -- i think we aired the whole thing. i asked him did you hear him say anything? he didn't hear him say anything. we have reported that at that time when mr. allen is loaded on to the van at that stop, that by that time according to our sources, mr. gray was unresponsive. a couple of minutes later when they get to the western district, he has no pulse. that doesn't come from just mr. allen, that comes also from our own reporting. what we have reported is that paramedics were able to get a pulse back by the time they got him to shock trauma. obviously he was in very bad shape. >> i'm sorry, i want to stress that because the timeline here is confusing. i thought he was mistaken when he said they said he doesn't have a pulse but he really doesn't have a pulse when he gets to the western district. >> reporter: that's correct. i say he was unresponsive when they finally got there and i say finally got there.