In this turbulence arena but of course its both a party to the conflict as in syria and to peace efforts so our question is moscow in the middle east who is in the power broker want to know what im dealing. With im sorry much for joining us on to the point and my guests here in the studio include who is a freelance journalist from levanon she says russia wants to be in a position to ease all worsen tensions in the region that will deepen migration flows to europe and continue kyra saying america and its allies are also with us is about him as a. Russian department and he points to a russian saying that goes holy space is never any. Russia has filled the vacuum created by others. And a very warm welcome to Daniel Gallup editor in chief of the middle east. And argues that in the middle east russia is making very efficient use of its a very limited resources which cant be said for countries in the west intriguing. Thank you all 3 for being held like to begin with youre a good a full blown war between the u. S. And iran appears to have been avoided for the time being but where does that leave us in the middle east and what can you tell us about the role of russia in the region. Well of course i mean if we look at the last few years in the middle east of course we can all agree that russia has gained more weight. Recently especially in places like in syria and recently in libya but i think this is all because the americans have chosen to step back from that region at least militarily and at the moment politically they dont seem to be interested in and they can get any any peace deals or be an involved watch so when the russians so that void i mean we can go back to this and the course of the conversation to speak of all started but the russians saw an opportunity that its can step in and try and. Embrace the fact that it was once a big power in the world at once a big power in it and really still a snow is once again the german magazine cicero described russia is the central actor in the whole mideast region is that over the top reserve plausible i think it is a little bit over the top but i mean it as i said it is only a big part of the moment because the americans have chose to be if the americans decide to step back and decide to be involved as they once were then that russians would not stand a chance to stay the big powers the big the big players they out at the moment but want to be russia is resurgent at the moment moscow has a real clout in this region where without a doubt how do you explain the return to power and influence from your perspective while russia has a very strong and very long history of military presence in syria and libya from the soviet times Russian Troops and Russian Defense were delivered to syria from late if you 2 years you know very base there until the collapse of the soviet union the same for you here russian government soviet government was one of the 1st in the world to recognized. Qaddafi as a huge of state after the putsch and the year after. Literal troops are present in libya as well so its acquired the historical link but theyre both country and now we have 20 years put in the power in russia last year in december so huge doing step by step reconstruction of the russian influence not to the soviet level of course but im quite agree with you that russian prime use does not limit not more putri sources its have limited resources but very very smart very very smart indeed i just want to be near the beginning of the show we have this quote from you holy space is never empty was not all of it its about if you leave some space its not about geopolitics its a general life. Rise from the altar icemans saying if you leave a space reach is very attractive for many parts many many participants someone will jump on the so if america leafs place or europe leaves someone didnt jump jump in and try to them in the space and its goals not only for me though its just done you know theres a certain fascination for russia even after mitt among the analysts and on the people that are dealing with the middle east professionally. Sometimes middle east experts jokingly saying that the reason why we are so fascinated with russia is because one of us made it to the top of the country because im talking about of course they used any pinnacle was a very influential in very influential soviet leader and it was a middle east expert and very eloquent arabic speaking but beyond this. There is myth and there is reality of course and the russian role is important but the strategies and tactics that russia applies are not so difficult to decipher and secondly i think it would be easy to follow the example of russian policies in the middle east europe could do that very easily but then it would have to stop caring about human rights it would stop caring about values whatever the russians challenge is well used and it would have to abandon certain of its Foreign Policy principles and thats the dilemma because what russia does basically is stabilizing governments they consider legitimate and. We will know. About values based policy of course not of course none of this is something that is completely i would say anathema to the russian Foreign Policy but its something that they consider hypocritical and a western idea and so they say our the Foreign Policy argument goes we are with the state we are with the government regardless of expenses and. Russia is not limited by the limitations or so from intentions of the rest of iraq theres no talks of democracy in russia or very loose russia is very pragmatic in their Foreign Policy. Yeah i mean thats why is that actions were never bothered by all the massacres that happened in syria. And they were facilitated by the russians maybe when when decided in 2015 when he said the russians were never told that are you talking about the russian the russian policymakers the russian the love the leaders i mean because of the russian going to help me by having the rationale because no one here is a true divide i am if you look back in the 2nd floor and just now for the same script apply to syria our rich was a player purchase not in the 2nd for you destroy the mother rights and then you destroy the extremist and then you establish a stability of it nor regret it in no cost and that the people involved by the way because it was put in sworn at least with regard to the 2nd are shit but its not no its not a new script its quite right all for us or us to have no limitations no very lives but just clearly russia is here to stay reflecting what you were saying about the just the fascination that some german commentators have with russia and germans by the way not only journalism we want to see in one scene you german spokesman recently described russia as indispensable so clearly russia we mightnt i dont know i dont know im not sure whos going to break the lines here for the let me put in today but we might not like. Policies put but theyre here to stay i think i think they have put in has and this is probably the strategic i would want to call it genius but the strategic advantage of food in your daily. Lives i dont want to step back for from this i want to express that too much admiration for this because if you analyze it is actually not so difficult he put himself in if into a position from which he can benefit from all the mistakes that others make in the region and he can somehow he can digest. Something that the others cannot and and by and by these Means Project power and this is a situation of really unique situation and also what is interesting is that weve been probably will talk about the war of narratives that a boy on is the syria war is it a western conspiracy as Many Russians believe is it just like a terrorist uprising an attempt to destabilize the region or even to to oust russian interests in the region we have a lot of narratives going on my fascination my main rather intrigued i have to say also when i travel to moscow to talk to russian experts about this is that it doesnt really matter there is kind of you know theres a little there that is that they seem to be comfortable with with with these conflicting narratives as long as there is no western narrative that dominates and. I find this very very interesting aspect of Foreign Policy also if is it true that assad used chemical weapons or is it not true is it true that there is a conspiracy against the Syrian Government because the western countries wanted to allegedly establish a gas pipeline from the gulf to the mediterranean which would compete with russian interests no matter there is a lot of theories and a lot of narratives around and my feeling is that russia the russian the official russian state lets say or proponents of the official russian state narrative can very well live with these conflict narratives because it helps them to project their power in the region. Laura. Mayo may not be a genius but he has certainly played a game in filling the vacuum thats come with this slow withdrawal the United States from the middle east as a result russia is now perhaps the key broker in the rich. In turkey syria iran israel saudi arabia in egypt and libya more and more strongman around the mideast are building closer ties with. Russia. And he provides incentives in syria his troops are fighting to defend the Bashir Al Assad regime in return russia gets to military bases on syrian territory and nato southeastern tip. Countries in the region are buying russian Weapons Systems even nato member turkey. Russian Nuclear Plants are also in demand russia provides them fully operational to egypt for example and promises investments along the suez canal. Offers Diplomatic Services as well mediating for instance between arch enemies iran and saudi arabia and between syria and turkey and between libya and german chancellor angela merkel. Is russia ousting the United States as a power broker in the middle east. Just in the moment we were talking about the methods being employed by the russian leadership by Vladimir Putin tell us a little bit more about what the strategic goal where does he want to take all this. Well 1st of all as mentioned there establishment russia is a major original power not the worlds power but the major Regional Power in the middle east back to the old soviet not to the golden age of the soviet influence and in the region that we are closing to loose security 1st very g. P. C. Theres not talks about democracy or human rights from russian side and what i wanted to mention as well that in the russian Public Opinion syria doesnt play a huge role so there are politics do whatever they want in russian army as well on the ground but there are public is not as much as concerned of the happenings in syria or leave as it wasnt its now not concerned or they actually pulled it in and not really consider their time to time have messages from russian contractors killed didnt leave in on the office the level denies the involvement because its a private contractors which are on the ground in libya for a private company is. There time to times news about People Killed or injured in libya and deliver it back 2 or 3 men to russia but on the official instance you know it was a very low really it has to be said. I have no children are because the russians dont deploy like massive troops like the american did in the movie miracle where they just send mainly experts and they deploy small number of troops maybe because russia is incapable of sounding like a big number of troops its ministries is lots of very well when tamed and it lacks way behind the American Military when it comes to to financing it so it doesnt really have that much money to be able to fund the whole its ambition in the region and militarily its cannot its cannot support that i mean aside from sending experts and trying to politically play on long. Use its leverage to mediate between some parties its i mean its better if its aimed at the moment from if it has managed to have. To be said that has managed a bit there the relations with the gulf is with the gulf countries especially saudi arabia despite all the differences between them on several topics just how it was in syria but they managed to agree on the oil market to be able to Work Together to stabilize their own life markets and were look at the other one and this is you just wrote of like how theyre dealing with their potential opponents and enemies the the friendship or lets say the very very personal and at the same template technical relationship between the other one and putin is something really fascinating to see like how how those heads of state in the region that theyre really afraid of russia because they say like the americans are far away but the russians can do us harm and we and we know they can do us harm and so they go to moscow and this is a fascinating if you look at the Syrian Opposition the Syrian Opposition has i think rightfully claim that russia is responsible for many casualties many dead in the war in syria actively and directly responsible however the Syrian Opposition has always gone to moscow its always been open to moscow never tried to alienate moscow too much because they were afraid but both so because they thought that its absolutely important to to entertain relationships with moscow the russians have also brought up the negotiations and the attempts to bring in some Political Solutions alongside the military solution. The Constitutional Committee in syria thats being much talked about that is currently meeting or not currently but that that has started revenging he thought it maybe felt failed to be 40 even started but this committee was a russian project and the United Nations implemented this because they said of the if the russians want this we will do it in order to be able to have the Initiative Im sure doesnt mean that its a successful as as we saw with you youre right they might have the initiative but doesnt mean that theyre capable of making them get to places all right but theyre but theyre theyre trying to offer a different scenario ive recently talked to a. Pretty i think influential Foreign Policy expert from russia was that the war in syria for us was a successful startup. But as every start up which can be considered a cynical statement about if you look if you look at what would have the consequences but whoever said it was it was a successful start a bit like every start of you need to have an exit you need to sell it and we havent actually found a way to sell the start of successfully so they are trying theyre trying to keep the political process ongoing also to Gain International legitimacy and at the same time during this time they have bought try to find a military solution but i think the russians are honest about something they know that just conquering every bit of syrian territory with the bashar assad is not enough they need to find a political solution and they havent found it so its an extent as a vacuum within a vacuum and a lot of people are saying the with the europeans should be doing rule is there are they right to say thats and if yes what should the europeans be getting up to well yes of course the europeans should do more because the of the europeans are the 1st suffers of anything that happens in the middle east and we saw the consequences of the syrian war on europe that it did not did not suffer from from the consequences it was germany particularly that suffered from the over 1000000 refugees from syria thats came here so of course that appears need to do more but if we look at the history of Europe Europes relation with russia its been really like nonexistent because we were the member in 2008 when russia had her small war with georgia and it was over a few days reprieve europeans response was not like major and then there was also the other russians adventure in ukraine when they took over crimea and the europeans only imposed some small sanctions but russia 5 that it can get away with anything its doing basically and this made her feel empowered to go further and start in syria as well in the 1st kind of country is harmed by war in syria was not germany that was turkey which brought to millions of refugees red letter and if you want job done like why dont our jordan in almost 1000000 but there was much talk in your about the reference to cry. Jordan lebanon oregon turkey before 2015 because it was not right it was a very moderate not that all side of Politics National do not lets just talk continue on the theme of the europeans they have tended traditionally to stand aside and leave the dominant role in the middle east in diplomacy at least today more influential americans take one look at the current conflict in libya and you can see why after all they dont even have a shared strategy. Libyas defacto strongman is codie for have tar the field marshal was long an asset of the cia he and his Libyan National army have parts of the country under their control and routed the islamist militias now his troops are poised to take the capital tripoli. Internationally recognized as libyas president. But his power is limited to the greater to polly area he receives military support from turkey and libyas former colonial power italy. But france and russia back qatar putin denies sending military support. To. East if there are russian citizens there they do not represent the interests of the russian state and do not receive money from the russian state. In the coming days the warring factions will tempt to negotiate a cease fire in berlin. Commit squabbling european players and russia agree on a common approach to libya. And. The crisis in libya. Together calling for us libya peace conference in berlin this coming weekend what can we expect what can we hope for realistically you know well both both have so far failed in their endeavor to solve this conflict and its interesting that