A dirty fight for the u. S. Presidency that is our title and. Welcome to to the point it is a pleasure to introduce our guests suited david will is Deputy Director of the Berlin Office of the transatlantic think tank the German Marshall Fund and she says American Elections are always full of dirty Campaign Tricks but this year the rhetoric will be harsher than ever. And its a pleasure to welcome ground frind he is a political lobbyist with republicans overseas and his opinion the track record of both candidates doesnt wash and in the long run quality always succeeds therefore trump will prevail. And great to have with us once again Soraya Sarhaddi nelson. She is the Program Director of the English SpeakingRadio Station k c r w berlin and she says the Republican National convention this week shows how damaged the Trump Presidency is many prominent republicans didnt even take part. So let me ask you suter you say American Election campaigns are always dirty so was there anything about these 2 Party Conventions that actually surprised you know i think its to be expected given the you know how strong polarization is in the United States at the moment certainly theres always a dirty Campaign Tricks over you know in u. S. Election history but i think this time its 2 parties pitted against each other framing each other as sort of enemies for the United States or an existential threat for the United States and thats why its especially harsh and that mood of darkness that we heard particularly on the 1st night of the Republican Convention nothing there that really stood out for you particularly. Harsh well i think you know President Trump in 2016 we saw this and also during the 2018 midterm elections his montra for winning elections is like lets play the fear lets use fear as a way of winning and the question is of whether a work in 2020. Well friend of the republicans have promised an upbeat convention but in fact they will largely delivered the opposite whats the message behind that well the message behind the convention was that he has a strong team he has a Strong Family he has a message we transport and hes a track record of course the track record is a cut phenomenally until carona quite successful i think hes going to play the card that hes the leader that hes a good ican economical leader and i think well see in the future you know in the next 8 to 10 weeks whether we get a more a a a campaign towards more economically issues or more little right sort of mentioned the fear element in fact weve heard a lot of speakers at the convention saying the president is the only one who can really protect americans and keep them secure but the fact is that the chaos were seeing right now in the United States has occurred on his watch well the point but the question is who is possible for parts of the chaos i mean he the management from corona for instance is not within his responsibility its on the individual states the point is hes responsible for it for the economy yes but hes not responsible for this little rights discussion i think i think its been very very have to be very cautious who is responsible for such problems maybe if weve weve talked about this for more than 1020 years now that there are problems and we had that at the obama biden of ministration and they havent been doing much against that as well soraya you talked about prominent republicans not taking part in the Republican Convention in fact a number of them took part in the democratic one warning voters and not to vote for donald trump once again my question to you would be though how many people are really getting that message will it change support for donald trump because if you look at the numbers it seems. That at most 30 percent of American Voters have been watching these conventions thats true but on the other hand and theres no doubt that theres youre talking about a base thats going to stay with donald trump and its going to be very difficult to move them but there is also that large i mean there are republicans who perhaps youre in for a different time or party i mean this party has been redefined at this point to be a Trump Loyalist Party i mean in the in the people who are not showing up you know that that thats because they just refuse to follow that line and so i think that there are a large number of voters out there that could deviate i mean that could go in another direction to somebody like joe biden and come along harris because its just its more moderate and so there is a there is a large component there that is not being addressed by this very narrow definition that weve seen or that were seeing resolutely ask you say about this trump a Loyalist Party in fact to this convention the Republican Convention has been absolutely dominated by the president s family the party for good for went having a program a platform thats a historic 1st it seems like the platform is donald trump has the Republican Party become in fact a personality cult well a person of the cold but finally now compared to last as it has a track record you know dont forget he was not a politician before he went into office and he was a he was a businessman now he has a 4 years you know track record and now he can claim what i have been doing the for last 4 years and basically ive kept a lot of promises and and hes playing that card very well i mean lets hear from the president himself and come right back to us or i i see you want to respond but let me let him 1st hear from the president himself he has been claiming for some time now that the only way he could lose would be if the election is rigged and as the Republican Convention got under way he spelled out how he thought that might happen. We caught them doing some really bad things. In 2016 lets see what happens we caught them doing some really bad things we have to be very careful because theyre trying it again with this whole 80000000 mail in ballots that theyre working on. Sending them out to people that didnt ask for it in a state you just gave them the only way they can take this election away from us is if this is a rigged election were going to win this election. So soraya know you wanted to respond just now to ralph that perhaps you can also tell us whats the president doing there. Well hes doing what he does and does very well which is sort of elevate the fear factor and basically say this is the trump reality theres no way he could lose unless this is a rigged election and there are a lot of people who believe that so that is a card hes playing even though it may come back to haunt me you know well have to see how that goes i was just going to say though about the loyalists thing i mean i think its what trump is all it has established is not just a record but he really has been much more about who says what i mean hes fired people for not being 100 percent loyal to him anybody who questions him or questions and his policy is gone i mean the people who are left the white house right now are die hard supporters and loyalists who will even to the point of the medical people who are advising him in the pandemic you know its its like my way or the highway so to me i dont know i dont i find that to be new i dont think this is just an incumbent president having you know his supporters sort of rallying around him for a 2nd term so what do you make of the fact that the president is saying he cant lose the election unless its rigged what are the implications of that well it sounds like hes setting things up so that if he is to lose he can say point the record say look its unfair and he can still sort of hold clout outside of office so. And still sort of be an agitator outside the white house but the irony actually is that you know recently there was a bipartisan report released from the u. S. Senate both republicans and democrats said that in 2016 the russians didnt interfere in the u. S. Elections and thats kind of ironic actually that hes saying that because there is there has been a bipartisan report saying there was russian interference and there was collusion but there was no evidence to convict ralph in a climate as polarized and heated as the one that we have in the u. S. Right now are 2 words like that that essentially throw doubt skepticism on the entire democratic process the very core of that process and election are they playing with fire absolutely and point i have a different opinion i think its an appropriate for a president to say that like stuff like that also he claimed 4 years ago hes hes going to go into prison i thought that was an appropriate either so i think theres a red line and the president shouldnt pass this line not too often do you think theres a real chance that if the results of the election are indeterminate those mail in ballots they may take weeks to count or is there a real chance that he would contest an election result. Ive no idea is the 1st time in history that that would happen i at this point i dont have the fantasy to go that far i dont think thats going to happen sariah talked about playing with fire we have seen President Trump discredit Democratic Institutions again and again what are the systemic consequences that well i mean he still is playing to a populous that wants to see things shaken up i think that the lines become so blurred as to what perhaps could use reform institutions that we stand by that i think this is something thats going to be very hard for whoever is the next president to kind. Hell i think that people are going to continue to react with emotion and with you know to defend their positions without facts necessarily and thats thats still sort of i think the mantra that sort of has become in america and its very dangerous i think its dangerous as you mentioned for Democratic Institutions you know we have yet to see what will happen with with the election you know Postal Service you name it there are just things that are there are crumbling and that people dont really understand what the damage could be if that continues lets perhaps dig a bit deeper on that dark mood to that we have seen at the Republican Convention and maybe also tie it to some of the events in commercial wisconsin this week numerous speakers have stoked fear and anger out there republican meeting with predictions of mob violence in the streets and one of those who found the flames was the president s son Donald Trump Jr in a speech that many observers saw as a launching pad for his own political ambitions. People of faith are under attack youre not allowed to go to church but mass chaos in the streets gets a pass its almost like this election is shaping up to be church work and school versus writing looting and. So no go to a suit and pseudo on the same evening that Donald Trump Jr spoke we heard a very striking appearance by a couple named mccloskey mccluskeys have been charged with a felony for pointing their weapons at black protesters who were going through their streets. Are the republicans with a Statement Like that with statements like we just heard from Donald Trump Jr are they indirectly if not directly exploiting racism well i think its become sort of a party of grievance and you know there are of course in 2016 i think donald trump was very smart to see that there were parts of the u. S. Electorate that were still suffering and people feeling left behind the question now is where does the lines cross as weve often talked about how dollar trump breaks norms and crosses certain lines where it becomes taking advantage of people with fear and also actually harming them because youre stoking division and what. Are describing in a world according to biden is actually happening now under a dollar watch so i hope getting back to your question also about the results of the election i hope that there is a resoundingly win for either side because then i think that the country can sort of move on and not have this sort of neck and Neck Division of you know polarization we need to have some constructive work moving forward. From republicans abroad sorry i think i got that name wrong at the outset of the show in wisconsin those divisions have been on display this week on tuesday night we saw armed civilians get into a scuffle with protesters while they were trying whether armed civilians were trying to guard a car dealership 2 people were killed isnt your party the Republican Party playing with fire when its instrumental izing racial resentment and fear of mob violence in a way like what we have seen this week well the point is im a man of law and order and the president is as well the point is how far do you go right i think if we have it at this point we dont get. Hes on the streets you need to strong a Strong Administration i believe but theres a certain point a red line where this is crossed and where well where there also racism is involved so i believe we should really as you say we should really like like come down a little bit and watch it from up as after perspective after i have to say i asked myself yes when i saw the events in kosha on tuesday night to what degree the appearance of charged people charged with a felony on the 1st night of the convention incites people like these armed civilians in can osha to take to the streets. Me as a german the whole situation is awkward i mean absolutely i mean we were talking about gun laws are we talking about. Scenarios which we will never have in this country this point and im a very modest person i would never agree to that i mean President Trump we have to say has certainly played you know hes very hes sort of stoking the flames of White Nationalism in the United States and his own assistant secretary for counterterrorism and Homeland Security just came out with a video shes a former official and said that President Trump is doing that and you saw what happened with the synagogue in 2018 you saw the white nationalists and charlottesville and the Republican Party and also donald trump have to vehemently reject those ideas of having any place in the Republican Party right suraya much of this is aimed at white suburban voters theres been a lot of talk about the suburbs and the mccloskey is of course. The incarnation of those white suburban dwellers not coincidentally because it is precisely white suburban residents who have been discerning the republicans for the democrats particularly in the midterm elections in 2018 do you think that this kind of talk that were seeing would win them back to the Republican Party i dont think so and i dont think im a clock mccluskeys really represent white suburban voters or at least the white suburban vote. That i would have with i mean i honestly do think that people are you know they want to tone down i dont think that this this i dont think it helps when you have downtowns on fire and you know if for the people who are violently protesting i think that unfortunately gates you know to a large extent the peaceful protests that you see and that is a danger but i just i dont see that message or those sorts of people. Somehow swaying the suburban voters unless and theres have become less if the fear factor is somehow takes hold again if the discuss and the frustration and that its time for something new is replaced by that fear factor again lets just give a quick listen to Donald Trump Space all of you have pointed out that he seems to be playing to his base and they seem prepared to stick by him. I think hes doing his best i know he loves this country and i think its best yes and yes ive been so happy with him from day one. What is it that you like about him. Just the fact that hes trying to. Live a christian life. But democrats up become socialists communists. And all they want is the structure and empty for. The blackboards not a movement or terrorist organization very much similar pitt was brought im sure. Souter as the democrats have repeatedly pointed out at their Party Convention the Trump Administration has perhaps the worst record on colona management of any country and certainly of any industrialized country why wouldnt that matter to trump space i think the Republican Party is just a split of the Democratic Party and the voices that we just heard from are you know certainly one extreme wing of the party but theyre also interested in social issues so you know the question of abortion on the question of sort of religious freedom for christians those thing play a larger role and they ignore the distasteful tweets they ignore the fact that President Trump has cut taxes for the you know one percent in the United States and not necessarily help working class white people in the United States and is a