Pressure to respond with unprecedented strength by canceling or pausing the nearly completed north stream to gas pipeline with russia my guest this week is germanys Deputy Foreign minister and meals on it is it time for a tougher stance against authoritarians in russia and beyond even if there is a financial cost. German minister of state meals on and welcome to calls of happy to have you tests confirm that alexina volley was poisoned with the military grade chemical weapon no he took the german chancellor she has demanded answers from russia she says the following there are very difficult questions that only the russian government can answer and must answer. Russian response has been defiant will there be kneeling for sanctions well i still hope that we can prevent this but this is entirely the russian governments decision and i have to say i want to be very clear very very disappointed about that reaction because instead of making clear what happened and to cooperate in an investigation we are seeing the old scheme you know of misleading information of counter accusations so if that is the spirit of the russian government then im afraid we are going to see this so we are still in a negotiation or you say its in the russian governments hands and in fact youve called for an investigation in russia but the foreign minister says there are several indications russia was behind the attack youre asking russia to investigate what do you expect well look there is the procedure here and you mentioned that indeed it looks like we are we are certain that it has been a poison from them of a truck group. And actually right now its not only a german investigation and we gave the probe also to our laboratories in sweden and france and we also gave it to z o p c w so it is quite obvious that this is a breach of International Law so i think we are talking not only about a tragedy involving mr no values this is an International Dimension so russia is in a position and has the ability to clarify what happened but but we also in in our intention to defend the International Procedures i think we need to have that process here and the process is not over but in that process mr annan theyre not taking you seriously are you a i mean just lets just look at some of the rhetoric that coming from the foreign minister which think we have an International Reaction this is not refused to draw many theres a clear statement from the European Union the world takes notice so i dont think they dont take a serious i just things that they are falling back into what we know is the typical russian here are their words foreign minister lavrov accused western officials of quote putting themselves above the law with and since to unsubstantiated accusations against moscow over the poisoning of no volley we also have a statement from the Foreign Ministry saying berlin is bluffing serving a dirty political agenda you dont exactly have them shaking in their boots look that but but this is just confirming what tried to tell you that we have very disappointed to see you know the all the way of reacting to accusations instead of really engaging and i am sure it is the russian credibility is that there will be be infringed by this so we are united in the European Union and we feel very encouraged by the International Reaction and we are not only. Talking about this case and not the only case of poisoning off an Opposition Leader we are talking about a serious step to undermining what have been a more or less Successful International convention on the chemical weapons so im saying were not at the end here and the exemption thing i show might be violating the russian site needs to know that clear saying terms are on the table lets talk about you mentioned an old way of doing things from from the russians and talk about the way that you have been doing things i asked you about meaningful sanctions because we know that sanctions are already in place of course since 2014 since the russian invasion of crimea but since then we have seen further aggression from russia weve seen the hacking attacks on the German Parliament 2015 weve seen the assassination of a Chechen Rebel in broad daylight in central berlin last year following that murder your Foreign Ministry you reportedly submitted 17 requests for assistance in solving that murder and received not a single response. Is just sanctions really going to pressure russia in the way that you need to know what look im very happy indeed that you mention those incidents im sitting here as a minister of state but i am also a member of the German Parliament so what happened there was the hacking attack as a serious serious violation of our weight deal among countries that should have a friendly relationship and many other incidents also see its a targeted use you know of measures of fake news to troll factories that we are seeing settlers are part of the reality but its also part of the reality is that we dont have we dont have a Remote Control to influence russian policies decisions are taking in moscow not in berlin but what is important here and the sink we are making progress that the European Union speaks with one wise that the russian side knows that as their surprise to pay but said we also need to be realistic we need russia to solve a great many of issues concerning our own neighborhood our stability so i think our approach to do both to be very clear but also engage washer i cannot really see an opportunity to that lets talk about the voice that youre speaking with because you have the nearly complete in north stream to pipeline which is set to bring more russian gas to germany and id like to ask you do you think that putin really takes your threat of meaningful sanctions need in full consequences seriously when you have such a profitable economic project right on his doorstep so i look at that only shows how complex our relationship is. I want to be also a little provocative for my answer here because i am not so sure of stopping that project last winter but which by the way is not an initiative of the German Government it is by the its an order by the German Government it is by definition of its own wanted by the authorities government that put that aside but you know would we do something as that really war to. Make russia pay a price or would we also somehow do some things that goes against our own long term interests so thats why im not so convinced i understand this is that has always been a controversial issue but its maybe too easy just to reduce our Political Tool box on the question of whether or not we should continue nosferatu i am with all respect not convinced that this is the only one so that we should get so you turn to your partners now your partners including in the the e. U. Including also the United States and youve asked them you want to put forward a joint response but theyve always had problems with this project havent they many among them have had problems with this project partners have expressed security concerns that north stream too would allow putin to cut off gas supply to former soviet bloc countries without affecting flows to the west cut off ukraine potentially where 40 percent of the natural gas imported by the e. U. From russia flows through north stream one to neglect your own partners concerns look there are 2 things i want to tell you for one thing that maybe surprised you and our viewers that the European Union is much more united on this and you maybe think we had a number at all this Prime Minister yeah well we say this reaction should leave 1st of the stoppage of work of nordstrom to with strengthens russian power not 60 n. E. P. Is bad yes and 1018 but you. Insert c. E. O. Uniquely led me to choose the european way or not the germany way for that you need to lead and you dont feel like unity you need to let me complete that sentence because we had 24 european Member States supporting a political the marsh and washington raising concerns about the american reaction which is threatening with extra territorial sanction our sovereign decision about our energies just for a 2nd sent about the European Union would put in place a law sectioning American Companies because that in effect me pick one example for example the the astonishing fact that nobody speaks about dizzee americans right now by oil from russia almost and the war you mean that we are buying gas from russia so you know we need to look at the facts against the 2nd part is German Government at the top the chancellor and the foreign minister. Have been engaged and are engaged to safeguard ukraines core interest as he said the deal that we signed with the European Union broke up but de facto it was brokered by our government between ukraine on the one hand and the Russian Federation on the other hand make sure that key concerns of our partners within the European Union and in kiev have been implemented so as i said its too simple just to say my closing austrian too will solve the problem i think dont like it if if if anyone really believes that youre going to take a hard line on russia that ultimately when push comes to shove even when it does come to ukraine because for example you and the foreign minister michael moss are both s. P. D. Politicians and probably as p. D. In the affidavit there are many who are strongly opposed to halting the construction of this pipeline very successful we have you know that there are a star of the other there are a lot of mecklenburg also all of that in more words very much in the pipeline from russia to germany should not be used to punish moscow over the poisoning of a kremlin critic Alexy Novelli the seductive site on has called the s. P. D. The north stream party they have a point dont they know they say that they say that youre motivated by a traditional empathy with russia no they dont have a point i like to remind you you know were used as social democrats and were pro sobering here in our positions were somehow getting used to this kind of accusation but that doesnt make them correct you know and if your policy of course is highly political we need to make sure that theres a clear mix between the renewable we need reaching technology garces much more efficient and less harm to the environment we have to address an elephant in the room because we were talking about the s. P. D. Were talking about your party and its relationship with russia the elephant of the room of course when we talk about north strain. Is get former chancellor former s. P. D. Head chairman of the project the wall street journal. Putins most important of our work the the what do you know how feeble what that do you feel comfortable with that putins most of the horton goldberg wall street journal has traditionally been maybe not the most sympathetic to the social democrats but that tell you something i have been maybe the most vocal critic of theatricals policy and you know he is somebody who needs to accept public criticism for privatization he takes but hes a private to the citizen he is not sitting in an alley buddy of c. S. With the so the esprit de cannot be blamed for what is it really realistic though that hes a private citizen haphazardly it is ok so hes a private citizen so we were talking about meaningful sanctions part of the meaningful sanctions was that they would be targeted sanctions against individuals correct you have spirit so therefore if hes just a private person working for putin should he be among the individuals who might be targeted in ascensions regime gets what as a result is out of the poisoning. In a sea of were trying to get me but im not going to defend the private decision by a former translator who in other parts by saying. Has been very successful an important for germany always knew that if you want exerting to maximum of hampshire on russia maximum russia but but this is what he is doing was not true is he is filling a seat. For European Companies so you know that theres always that network you know theres that narrative so its only a german project there are actually companies from other European Partners also and off so i really think were now spending and its your questions im trying to answer thats ok with me but were. Spending more time talking about los cream to right now then were spending time on talking about our difficult relationship with russia and i also want to again the remotest arc of the relationship with russia of course and i said your but your enclosing reaction nomic ties with russia it is a complex relationship you know our american friends have an ocean between them and russia we dont we have to join and shared history russia is not going to go away and the decision about where russia saudi may be influenced by us but the russian decision so were talking about peace in libya you need to talk with russia were talking about peace and syria like it or not you need to talk with russia and there are many other aspects so were trying so dialogue that we dialogue no matter why we are youre not very much to the cause no matter what russia doesnt know we this is very important to me because its really what i believe in is that we are in a world where apparently many of the step louche rules are not binding countries like russia unfortunately even sometimes countries that we are more close to so germany is in the central position geographically in europe its the most important economy we are not you know projecting military power so we are we need to rely on the willingness and ability to apply by those schools and thats what we are trying so you cannot cut off the dialogue with russia but you need to be very clear in that and thats what we are lets talk about another country where you have a lot of dialogue we have to mention is going to china now also in the news for its continued infringement of human rights and rule of law similar to russia in a speech before the parliament on september 10th you said the following human rights are central element of our china policy hows that working out for the prodemocracy protesters in hong kong what we are. And i hope that im not going you know its not im not intending to to criticize any of our European Partners but to really think sometimes we need as a government to explain more what we are doing as think germany is maybe the only relevant country right now that is addressing human rights issues with china on every high level meetings that we are having sometimes we do that publicly sometimes dont we dont do that publicly because were talking about individual cases we have an established human rights dialogue and and quite frankly we tried to celebrate the e. U. Were trying out some of the in order to generate more european unity also on human rights but outlets so about a message that you are sending there you might have the dialogue but the message the real message that youre sending how can china really believe you are serious on human rights when in every state visit you show up with a huge business delegation and id just like to go to the last one with the german chancellor Angela Merkel that was in september of 2019 where amid the crackdown on the prodemocracy protesters in hong kong she sat along the time is premier and in her visit it was crowned by overseeing the signing of 13 business deals between german and chinese executives in the great hall of the people in Tiananmen Square is a trade off for human rights because thats what it looks like i dont think that it looks like that i dont see that this is a contradiction i mean if if if the policy would be to completely exclude china from Political Landscape and from our political thinking. Well i think we are not going to serve our interests here and i am very concerned that this is going to happen if we are live listening to some of the very inflammatory rhetoric right now we need to wipe falling back into the logic of a new cold war but you ask about the effectiveness of our policies and i can tell you that there are many cases and some are prominent cases like the widow of the Nobel Prize Winner who came into freedom and could leave the country because of very very high level interventions from germany and they are bad not always the case theyre there and id like to id like to bring in i just want to say is that there is. And i mean we cannot ignore that there is a temptation for many leaders around the world. Not to do that what were doing a from a government because they believe that if they dont address human rights issues that may be because going to philosophically speaking and thats not what were doing and im very proud of philosophically speaking when we look at your overall diplomatic strategy we have for example your economy minister saying just back in july in a conversation with politico he said i still believe in transformation through trade transformation through trade when it comes to china your own German Industry Association has come out and said they published a paper last year calling for a tougher approach to china their message was the west strategy for opening tyner has failed you know this is a wake up call that what they have said is going to be the case of china isnt it isnt both outdated and naive to think youre going to have transformation there and read one is not happening to make one comment because you were all really asking the system on the question of me and my boss cycle miles being members of the social Democratic Party so so no youre trying to put me into responsibility for something well youre part of the government does that equate youre part of the government with your christian democratic partners and i can tell you that. I think we had maybe a dictate where we were social democrats and christian democrats and liberals and greens or whatever it may be too optimistic about the impact of our Economic Engagement on democracy and human rights as saying this is very obvious china change to that guiding policy itself then shopping so to bide your time never takes the lead that is over with risp presidency and thats why were in the middle and thats why i welcome your questions. We are in the middle of a debate how to readjust our policy and i think we need to defend or ok with stronger but we shouldnt cut off or away ties with china you need allies to deal with china absolutely russia you absolutely do lets look at the state of your alliances right now the u. S. Is pulling 12000 troops out of germany its reportedly because you didnt meet your defense spending goals the nato 2 percent goal of g. D. P. For dispense spending what does that say about the state of your diplomacy that this announcement reportedly 1st of all caught you by surprise shouldnt you have seen it coming from the us up what he said they would well there would be consequences well look i mean. We dont believe that reducing troops and draw money as an instrument to harm drug money or to castigate trouble those troops the few look carefully about what they are doing they are serving the interests of the United States armed forces and they are part of the deterrence where not only germany is benefiting but youre a person whole so we have some problems to understand the logic behind that decision but it is and there are lots of problems i understand youre not spending 2 percent of g. D. P. Youre not on track to spending 2 percent of g. D. P. This is a commitment that you made to your allies at a nato summit in wales and 2014 a commitment that look if you dont appear to be intent on fulfilling that well up to the numbers of the appropriations that we made in terms of defense spending there are no secrets. There were no one in washington so if they look at what were doing its clear that we are on that we are on track to quote you that we are massively increasing our defense spending but by the way not because somebody in the United States is demanding that from us but because we see that the world is changing that we talked about it russias getting more assertive we have conflicts in their own neighborhood so thats the reason why were doing this and so i think we cannot neglect that we have political differences that its a very you know i want some or even history here this is a unique style of the american president but the basis of our relationship is stronger than but ultimately here between us that mr alternately when we look at the big picture when we look at the broad picture when we look at the actions not just the talk but the actions that your government and your country is taking your adhering to deals and russia the north stream to project which is probably what you want us to restart the question again what you dont really know we need to be discussed im also you have you have a very robust trade relationship with china that is increasing countries where there are open human rights offenders. But youre not fulfilling your commitments to allies like nato for example when it comes to increase in defense spending is this really the way forward look for german diplomacy and is this really what takes you into the next decades and beyond look we are nato so we are doing this because of our own interest if german fighter planes right now or that are defending as a part of skies its german soldiers who are part of the very high already in the drug task force. Its a German Initiative that we took up and we are going to build and you nato headquarters so nobody needs to to teach us about how important nato is and i tell you something sometimes our friends and allies i dont want to name countries here but sometimes france said allies say simply is humans its a german work react in the way we do how how are we doing this russian well were not going to be provoked. We did not cutting our dialogue and the networks that we have been building this is important for you so im im happy to take some blame there sometimes disappointment people sometimes have that strange ideas that its weakness not to respond in kind but we are so force that is keeping all of this together chairman minister of state nelson and thank you for joining us on conflicts and thank you so much. Didnt beethoven need to invent jazz to dig deep Doo Doo Doo Doo doo doo. Might he be the true king of rock and. The subconscious always plays a role in the uk plus one player cyril willis on a musical journey of discovery a World Without beethoven i cant even begin to imagine. In 15 minutes on d w. Were all set. To go beyond obvious. That were on live. As we take on the world. Were all about the stories that matter to you. Really what ever is. Running down the tubes. Made for mines. Every day counts for us and for our planet. The idea is on its way to bring you more conservation law how do we make cities screamer. How can we protect animals and their habitats what to do with the olympics too. We can make a difference by choosing reforestation over deforestation recycling over disposable Smart New Solutions overstrained said in our earth is truly unique and we know that their uniqueness is what allows us to live and survive gloop why do you assume the Environmental Issues in global 3000 on t w and on. The free is over and the new zealand is kicking off in the most. Summer playing. History. History. Like going back to. Cutler probably came back normal. Numbers in this league start to temper the team on c. W. O. Cut plan. This is due to abuse why more than 10000 migrants including many children are still sleeping on the streets of the greek island of lesbos that after a fire destroyed the refugee camp police are trying to move them into a new tent city but many are reluctant to go also on the show guilty of corruption the former head of world athletics a sentenced
vimarsana.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.