Is very successful it is tremendous business of the United States people were riveted by it and when you look at. The top to many of the toxins important. To remain single thing whatever it may be i just wish that they understood that they talk really does like to have an impact on our world today the United States has to be compensated well compensated because we are the ones that are make it possible. Coming up israel goes back into full lockdown following the surging coronavirus case since the new restrictions will be in force for 3 weeks. And everybodys and rates and theres a sense of confusion i feel it is a mistake it wasnt my pad it was no exit strategy from the last look down and now we enter another cycle of id say. Well the us is announced plans to ban the use of the chinese own to mobile apps and we chat citing National Security concerns a download in the apps in the u. S. Will be blocked that will be blocked from sunday with a full ban due in mid november imposed on the van service. The bans through executive orders that President Trump says to talks chinese owners could pass information about the absolute u. S. Uses to beijing however the ban might be called off if the white house allows a deal between tick tocks chinese owners and u. S. Investors. Goetia directs the platform accountability project at the Harvard Kennedy school as a Computer Scientist he served as a technology and Economic Policy advisor in the of barmah white house and a Public Policy advisor at facebook welcome to t w lets start with the basics trick talk a threat to u. S. National security. Its a difficult question but i think that it can be very well can be and. The implication is very clear that you have you have an application here in this case owned in part by by china. By a chinese entity which essentially collects a lot of information on users on a mass of users and many of those users are american and tens of millions dozens of millions of users are american and when you have one application that is collecting all that information on so many people are voting population. You can certainly have an impact on our National Security considerations because theres a thing. That. Actually you know i mean this is a social Media Company and many people asked this question you know this is this is kids dancing and singing along to their to their favorite songs and sharing that with their network over to town and thats what youve done hes come to be we have to remember what happened behind behind to. The application will collect a lot of information identifying information on a typical user not just your name but maybe other other forms of personally identifying information. Maybe youre dressed these kinds of things so they know where you are. Not only that they can collect certain other forms of information like youre engaged in on the platform your location and your your Friend Network these kinds of things through which the application can start the company by dance can start to develop influences behavior. Get all the information. Well information is power and knowledge is power and. Lets lets assume for a 2nd that the United States and china are political geopolitical adversaries. Not saying that they are or that they wont be in the future but lets just assume for a 2nd that they are and china now has all this information about exactly who the lets say a 100000000 american ticktock users are what their name is where they live and what kind of person they are that kind of information can really be used to target democratic process and more broadly kind of Economic Future of the United States in very much the way that we saw we signed the case of brush in 26 i think that i mean any evidence that this actually happened. Well i dont i dont think that theres any evidence that that in fact to talk sent is quite categorically. That we the company protect. Users information were not you know working in tandem with the Chinese Government in the ways that our american Current Administration is thinking and and there there is there is essentially no publicly available information public evidence. These kinds of implications that. Because the just working from the more dangerous if i think in quotes apps would be the but they take a web but people are sending all sorts of messages and. Pictures of their body parts to each other thats the sort of thing that obviously dangerous. Well you know i think i think theres a different kind of danger with that with dating apps for sure that there are you know when youre sharing such Sensitive Information over a dating application as you know who youre reaching out to and and. Perhaps sensitive images and messages over dating apps and lets say a Chinese Company or a chinese firm has access to that information that can be very sensitive to the individual in a very targeted way you know lets say for instance i was using these kinds of apps and sharing sensitive messages messages over dating apps. In that case i could be targeted individually but the kind of harm that were talking about in the case of ticktock is quite different certainly this targeted individual harm can arise but there is a there is also a broader. Democratic harm when one company kind of controls lots of information and it may well be associated with a government that is on its face adversarial with the Current Us Administration ok most of our focus and most of the media focuses is around a tick tock but when chatter is also pots of this spot always have told to talk us through why that is significant. Well you know i think i think many many experts have been suggesting that we chat is. Even more critical component to the to the Global Economy than tic toc is and i think there is theres a lot of. Theres a lot of reasons why you could try to suggest that which is in particular that you know china has this ban on many of the services that we that we can use a lot around the globe including facebook and google we chat is one of one of the few that that is originating from china and which enables communication from china to to other people around to people or you know other countries around the world thus enabling a lot of Economic Activity you know payments connected certainly social connections and Media Consumption and so on and so forth and i think thats in part the reason why people are suggesting many people are suggesting that we chat we chat and its more significant more substantial than the tick tock and because to talk is quote unquote just social media we chat is really very much in a lot of ways the more holistic internet experience including commerce. In china and connects china with the rest of the world in many ways ok thats thats very clear. Going back to take it doesnt look as though. The u. S. Patent. That it will go with this is oracle. However ticked off will still be owned by by dallas and the source code will still be owned by by downs that the Chinese Company so i dont understand why thats going to be more acceptable to the u. S. Government because that data pipeline if i put it that way its still going to be there is that. Absolutely and thats exactly why i think the Trump Administration has come forward with this preliminary judgment that the deal as it stands cannot go through i think it is worried that its worried about this 20 percent number. Percent of ownership by oracle and exactly the implications that youre drawing now that well if if the source code and if the Data Infrastructure behind. And by dent still has full purview pull ownership over that full rights to not intellectual property then nothing nothing technically will have changed from a National Security perspective for the United States and the Trump Administration at least on its face is on floor with this judgment. On that pretty ok so what weve got from you is that this the argument about it being a threat to the u. S. National security has some merit but people are looking at this and presuming the base is really about continuing to put pressure on china in this continuing spot does does that have merit that argument. Absolutely i think i think we would we would be leaving a lot on the table if we ignored the potential that. Some of the most powerful leaders in Silicon Valley could well be pushing the trumpet ministration to enforce this ban or at least talk about this ban in a way that it damages the potential to or Companies Like we chat in tictac to have an impact in the u. S. Economy and u. S. Digital economy more specifically you know. I think i think it its worth mentioning that facebook and google have attempted to enter china and have been banned from china and and have certainly tried to claim the Chinese Market in social media and search and other Consumer Internet markets have failed because of because of the Chinese Governments right ascension and i just i was want to pick up on that point about that facebook and google way it would have with had to talk to general manager in the u. S. Of a thats a pop asked tweeting today and she said this type of bad would be bad for the industry and she invited facebook and so they have to join and take talks challenged this is a moment she says to put aside the competition and focus on Core Principles like freedom of expression so can you see them getting involved in this fight with the u. S. Government. Then being. Lets save facebook can tick tock you know i i think in fact the message was replying to a facebook its. So you know this ban is bad we you know we should be we facebook believe that or at least i as an executive at facebook believe that this is this is something that should not happen and the u. S. Government children. And vanessa said well why dont you join our trade association why dont you want to push the u. S. Government. In this more more directly than just making a statement on twitter and i think that really highlights the competitive aspect here that a lot this is about about show or for facebook where on one side perhaps you know its ok the companies are ok with suggesting that you know we need free speech we cant have these kind of blocks. While on the other hand you know it its very much in favor of this ban to the extent that china continues to to block it. From some shit thats very clear thank you so much for talking us through that they pad from the Harvard Kennedy school. Pressure israel which is really imposing a full nationwide lockdown for 3 weeks. The jewish new year say its the only way to slow soaring Coronavirus Infections but its fear the new restrictions will devastate an economy that went into recession because of the 1st. Day in jerusalem shortly before festivities get underway its. The jewish new year but the streets are empty. The countrys 2nd lockdown has just begun and despite the Festive Season visits to relatives in other neighborhoods are banned israel has been registering around 6000 new covered cases a day in a country of 9000000 people thats a lot and it gives it one of the highest rates of infection in the world according to the Prime MinisterHealth Care Officials have to clear code red. In the last 2 days weve witnessed another alarming increase in morbidity and continued increase in the number of critically ill patients. Yes the made in light of the mortality rate as many of the experts have recommended we may have no choice but to tighten the guidelines. Many accuse netanyahu of ending the 1st lockdown to worley and in doing so setting up a 2nd wave of infections the crisis has hit the economy including Small Businesses across the country hard. It will hurt us because businesses continue to pay full rent no 1. 00 helps us with the extra expenses and the workers are home to 3 weeks of closure will be very significant for us whats up with that and you know they must i dont know if this closure will help or not we will know the results only after its over but if there is no change in the behavior of people then it isnt worth it this knock down is currently expected to last for 3 weeks meaning it will affect a number of major holidays thousands of Police Officers are being deployed to enforce the measures and the Prime Minister netanyahu has already said that if the situation worsens even tougher restrictions could be imposed. Correspondent joins us from jerusalem welcome how does the atmosphere at the start of this jewish new year compared with what you normally experience. Well i think it was a very quiet evening the lockdown started at 2 pm local time here in the afternoon and then you could see some people sort of coming back from shopping people are allowed to venture out about a kilometer from home and of course to go out to buy you know basic supplies its usually an evening for jewish israelis you know to come together families and friends to celebrate this evening together over dinner with various special plessy things as some people are reminded really of the 1st lockdown because then there was also a holiday the holiday of passover. When people also couldnt really come together more than you know in a smaller group. Of friends and some people told me no im not going to see my grandmother or my grandfather because you want to protect them as is have said defiantly you know i want to see friends and of course also for more religious people conservative people prayers will be more restricted gatherings are restricted in the open to 20 people and of course also in synagogue stare special restrictions in place so that people. Can practice social distancing but despite israel having one of the highest convert 19 infection rates in the world new lockdown is proving to be unpopular. Well absolutely i mean i think people do have mixed feelings about this because on the one hand theres a lot of anger and frustration that it had come to this you know mainly at the Decision Making process as well all along the way and people are saying maybe theres something should have been done earlier so to avoid a nationwide locked on but at the same time people are aware of course of the serious situation caseload of. Covert 19 patients is rising especially also in serious cases you know infection rates have been going up sharply in the past couple of weeks and people do know that measures have to be taken but they might not be happy about how they were taken. By situation all the more remarkable is that israel has gone from being one of the 1st and most successful countries to control the pandemic so this being the current high levels of infection what went wrong. Yeah absolutely im that has been discussed here also very much and i mean its not just one factor you have to look at i mean experts can mainly agree on that basically on one thing that there was no proper exit strategy the country went into lockdown in march and april and then you know cases went down the infection rate went down and then the economy it was quickly opened up there was a lot of focus on that because it was very very difficult for many people in Unemployment Rate went up very sharply and at the time the israeli Prime MinisterBinyamin Netanyahu said to people now go out and support the local economy also schools were open very quickly and this is where the 1st classes the 1st cases then reappeared also missing was a really functioning track and tracing. A program that didnt work too well as well as also then the new government a lot of people as perceived as government as not functioning very well that there are a lot of political interests as well when decisions are being taken for example their crew on a task force suggested like a traffic light system that cities and neighborhoods which where with high infections would be classified as ragin would have to be put under local lockdown this didnt work out there was a lot of pushback from mainly the religious communities so at the end you know they could only agree on a night 10 curfew and that was basically not enough. Jerusalem sank you. It was the Opening Night for the bundesliga season here in germany with the reigning champions by a munich hosting shall come but it was an unusually low key affair found situated 2 sides on a last minute decision to keep the stadium empty because of rising Coronavirus Infections in munich despite the lack of an audience the bavarians put on i mean pressing show if he shot at 8 will be on the Upcoming Games this weekend expected to welcome some fans into the step. In the talk through the bun this may go recent with Kyle Mckinnon from date of the sport welcomed kyle whose decision was it to exclude fans from tonights game it was not the teams it was not the leagues it was not the federal government in berlin it was in fact local governments it was the burgermeister there of mayor the mayor of munich who came out and along with Health Officials came out and said we are going to halt this concept of bringing 7500 fans into 875000 fan seat stadium and he cited certain magic numbers that had been sur