President so. How did the government let it all get so bad. Vice president Hamilton Moore our welcome to conflict zone a few months ago you told journalists everythings under control we just dont know whos just how bad is the chaos in your administration. Everything is ok in our administration that was a kind of a joke that i used to say ok it was not very straight for war war that i put it was a joke ali a joke because here in brazil everything is ok. What sort of joke was it you had to Health Ministers who were gone in the space of a single month during a Health Emergency and Justice Minister resigned and Education Minister hurries off to the u. S. Just days after stepping down from the job saying i dont want to fight leave me alone dont provoke me isnt that enough chaos for you now it is not things that happen in any government ok that their way that their vacation minister went out well it was not a big problem for us ok and you know brazil is a very different country and well some things that happen here that happen in other countries its our culture so why did you write an op ed may the 14th you said no country in the world has inflicted more harm on itself than brazil and you warned that institutional damage was driving the country into chaos you were the one who mentioned the chaos and drew attention to it you said we become incapable of the essential in facing any problem sitting at the table talking and debating that was a powerful indictment of your own administration wasnt it because your leaders like you who are supposed to unify your country. Well the country is suffering what happens all around the war there isnt an excess of of tripoli is politico the political sides are all d very glad to say pull our eyes that is a lot of politicisation in politics but. Our administration is running the country well and so far as today he sings are Getting Better and the relationship between the different powers are getting each day better and better so we had some difficult time some months ago but now everythings ok really and added to that the president his family and several associates are need deep in criminal and legislative investigations is that ok to. This question its still under investigation and of course its than the hands of the judiciary system and we have to wait for. Us to get tweets sent. By warning about all this chaos as you did last may were you preparing for the military to intervene and start to dealing with the chaos in june the president openly floated the idea of military intervention saying the armed forces would not accept absurd decisions by the Supreme Court of congress is not was not a threat. Thats not a thats not true 1st of all them and force are aligned with their constitutional mission and they are not stepping out of the it syncs here in brazil. Are going muson well and. We make it very clear that democracy is a value of not only for mr bozo not his government but us to our am and forced to so there is no any anywhere and there is no threat to the Supreme Court or their jobs or to have system here in brazil and the fact that he attended rallies outside military bases where his supporters called for an armed intervention to get rid of governors judges and lawmakers who imposed lockdowns in response to the pandemic no threat there either i suppose well the question of the pandemic people have to understand that brazil its a very unequal country where were unequal socially economically and of course geographically so since the beginning we depend emic and weve been trying to deal with their health for with the economic curve and with this curve thats the way that mr bush or not a government dealt with this pandemic well he attended rallies which called for an armed intervention didnt he to get rid of governors judges and lawmakers whats that if not a threat to democracy you want to play of the us is not a threat to democracy well the governor of south paulo thought it was going to. The governor of south paolo said brazil i said face up every day afraid of aggression to democracy to the constitution to the congress to the Supreme Court president both scenario he said stop this endless aggression. This happens because there is polarization in politics the governor of some poll opposed to mr bush on out of this is much more talk down there that say action when you see heres the happens its a new way to people behave. Not dangerous its dangerous to have power to do what you mean but nobody has the power to do what they mean we swards here in brazil plenty of people seem to think youre doing politics through fear these days eduardo cost of pinto from the federal university of rio he says this is the problem of having a government filled with military personnel during an institutional crisis the military will fight tooth and nail to stay in power and they have guns which makes political mediation difficult why fill the government with all these military personnel if youre not planning on the military taking over power 1st of all its got to be very clear that we are not a military government mr both are not in ny where elected by more than 57000000 brazilians ok and of course we have some people into gaza that come from the military but they are here sinking for the good of brazil and respecting our constitution and our loss the federal audit court is now investigating what it calls the excessive presence of the military and Civil Public Service and it is excessive isnt it the court said in june there were as many as 3000 military personnel in government jobs what do you need 3000 of the military in government jobs for. Well 1st of all its have to be very clear that any government in brazil has more din 2000 military in government jobs because we have a security cabinet that belongs to their dead a president that has more than 1000 military people and indias scout of military people are those who work at the Defense Ministry so we dont have such a huge number of military people. Their civil jobs in our government thats some kind of did seem formation that came through some different channels and are all these military personnel qualified to do the jobs they doing im thinking of the Current Health minister as well oh hes an active duty general who followed orders from the president is that is only qualification he doesnt know anything about health or drugs does he well you dont need to be a doctor to be the house minister why do you need to be its manageable understands the Public Administration and more that you dont mocked up with ruction and of course mr puzzle will loads are not about logistics that was the main problem in our house minister and he knows how to a bay orders more than the other Health Ministers does see he knows to do as hes told thats his main qualification is it well he has the qualifications and he has been doing have very good job and this has been a task that about all the secretaries of the different states here in brazil they are all very pleased with the job that mr puzzle has been doing because all the necessary support for to fight big in control depend them has reach it every point in an hour in our country. Mr Vice President mr paulson r. O. Has never hidden his admiration for brazils former military dictatorship do you share that admiration well we had a period of a military presence that lasted about 20 years they had they did a very good sings for brazil another sings they didnt go so well and this is history and history can only be judged when time pass we are still some 50 years away from that period we need some more 50 years so that the spirit can be judged well well during the vote to impeach former president Dilma Rousseff mr ball so narrow dedicated his balance to one of the regimes most notorious torturers this man was convicted of torture during the 21 years of military dictatorship last year your president called him a National Hero 502 cases of torture were identified in the unit he ran you have nice heroes in your administration these days dont you. First of all we are don we dont agree we started torturers is not. A politics that our country is simpatico to it and of course when there is a lot of people that fought there you are but guerrillas judy in the late sixtys and beginning of the 7th of last century and many of these people have been wrongly accused of being torturers so colonel Carlos Alberto was wrongly accused and you also think of him as a hero do you despite the cases the 500 cases of torture which were attributed to his unit. What i can tell you about him and carlos are back to brilliant used he was my Commanding Officer in the late seventys of their last century and he was a man on or and a man who respect the human rights of his subordinates so bent of sings that people tell about him i can tell you because i had a very close friendship with this man thats not true so he was wrongly convicted then of torture was it it was all made up while the trial was fixed 1st of all. Im not aligned with stuart and of course many people are still alive from that period and all and all of them want to put sings in their way that they saw thats why i told you before that we have to wait for all these sectors to disappear so debt history can make its parts and of course what really happened during that period that period come through well given that you and your president are not prepared to condemn the torturers only torture can you not understand why so many people in brazil and internationally doubt your commitment your administrations commitment to democracy and you understand that well denmark received its one of the nash of our nationals permanent objectives we dont see brazil out of democracy our Main Objective today is make of brazil the most brilliant democracy in the 1000. Really and with people like al gusto hell a no minister of Institutional Security another retired general hes on record as saying he believes its up to the military to put this house in order this house meaning brazil another threat you have all these people who are prepared to make threats but you say there really isnt a threat im confused mr Vice President gore. Like i like i have been telling you this makes parts of the discussion that we have the polarization in politics ok its must really wards then actions because you want name one single action from mr bozo not a government that was a real real real scratch to democracy here in brazil but words matter in politics dont they you play its all down but even the Supreme Courts chief justice d. A. s tough only warned in june about the president s dubiousness about democracy he said dubiously thats not a great characteristic for a democratic leader is it these dubious about democracy i think there is no way to sink. Because there is some dubious of feelings of the mr bowser nodded to democracy including last saturday for instance mr bowser not and mr taft fully aware eating together in a dinner so if mr tarpley had any doubt about the way mr bush on our behave they would not be together in the heat in their house in his house by the port but that. Your former Justice Minister sergio morrow accused the president of interfering in an investigation into his family basically attempting to obstruct justice this is a highly damaging allegation from a minister who used to be well liked and respected by mr bowles and wasnt it well mr morell may does like you say chanst views are being investigated surulere there to Supreme Court we are waiting for this investigation to come through ok of course we have to wait for dead it is process to end i myself. Will walk im side by side with president bush for not joining all this time and i can tell you that he didnt get in not to interfere in the federal police in the work of the federal police so that he could help some of his sons that are being accused of some wrongdoings how do you know he didnt did he tell you that he didnt have i know that well well ive been with mr bozo not. To tell us and weve been working closely together and i can tell you he is not interfering in the work of the federal police and federal police is doing our job they are investigating all this case. That our system is investigating the problems that one of his sons has so i see that this process is going their way all process go here in brazil. Mr Vice President how important is truth in your administration lets take the issue of deforestation and the fires this year in the amazon august the 10th you said government agents were executing urgent measures to contain deforestation and fires a day later president both sonera said the exact opposite you wont find any spot of far he said nor a quarter of a hectare deforested the report that the amazon is burning is a lie in fact it was his statement that was the lie wasnt it because the amazon was clearly burning at that point well it dont deny what happens and weve been working very hard to stop any illegal deforestation and illegal fire that happened in the amazon what has been is clear is deforestation has been increasing since to tell us and 12 accelerate the last year since that 2nd half of this month of june last june deforestation has been decreasing so the work is beginning to pay now and of course we still have the problem of the fires we are in the dry season there i see this one year to year is beginning to be very bigger and bigger and of course we have to have more resources we have to put more a source in the fight to hand against the legalese that happens in the amazon area yeah but when mr bronson our august 11th said there is no fire the report that the amazon is burning is a lie that itself was a lie wasnt true was it simply wasnt true so by lying about these things what happened. What happens in the amazon for the question of fires its very clear we allot of people we have some more than 500000 farmers in the amazon area and some 5 percent of dinner about some 25000 farmers they work their fields with fire and thats why our thats a very. System to work the field so we have to make them we stop this so debt. Dont grow year to year the fact is these are the worst 5 in a decade on day in september you know satellites recorded more than 32000 hotspots in the rain forest 61 percent rise over the same month last year and in both september and the oldest when you would tell the president was telling us there were no fires the blaze matched all suppose last years single months high so the science direct a few Amazon Environmental Research institute said we have had 2 months with a lot of fun its already worse than last year satellites can see it why do you deny its worse than last year now we dont deny it we dont deny anything ok september of 20 has been a war since september last year but like i told you before some 70 percent of these fires are raging a. D. s that have been over read it before has spent many many many years ago that are occupied by farmers only one surge of them are happening in a test that they wouldnt do should not happen and we a fight and then since the beginning of their day a green brazil to operation that we lounge and since the months of may where we stopped at some 6000. 00 points of fire so we have been doing our jobs. Youve been doing your jobs but. Not very effectively it seems according to reports on the ground is the fires are that bad and there are still 32000. 00 the hot spots in the rain forest the 61 percent rise over the same month last year thats not very effective is it well like i told you this season is very dry so its a moment that fire happens and of course you say 32000 hotspots 32000 hotspots in an age of 5 median square kilometers i think you can agree we should meet thats not so huge are people watch telly around the wood ok because the amazon is very huge so whats being passed in to all around the world that the whole amazon is in fire and thats not happened there fires happen like i told you in ages that have been already before asked that since many many years ago mr Vice President the accusation from human Rights Groups is that your ministration has deliberately undermined efforts by your own federal agents to stop deforestation Human Rights Watch says that while federal authorities impose thousands of fines for illegal deforestation a president ial decree has allowed most of them to go on paid whats the point of doing that no we dont comply weve seen the galaxies in the amazon by for instance our. Environmental legislation to say that any property in the amazon can explore 20 percent of it sadia they order 80 percent has to be preserved but if you let weed will be as a way with fines you let people get away without paying fines why almost everyone gets away with not paying well lines well. So if people dont pay fines they gave the dont pay they fight defiance their land that they have is going to be arrested but so far as today we have a problem of regulation of the land tenure we need to regulate these this is a big problem that we still have in brazil ok. We are dealing with this in the National Council that im the head of the council and thats one of my Main Objectives ive been working together we sell our culture minister so death we can go ahead with this because its very important that we solve this problem because only repression against people who are making sings wrong its not and they legalities we need to advance with their land can you regulation but why should these criminal groups involved in the forestation stop when the when your penalties are taken away and theyre not even obliged to pay fines means everyone gets away with it with no penalties which is exactly what you wanted a mr paulson are made no secret of his intentions he openly attacked his own environmental agencies which he called industries of fines and promise to end their festival of sanctions so he made it quite clear that he wanted to take away the sanctions take away the punishment and let all the illegal logging go ahead he was quite clear about that. As to both or not he spoke about debt when he who a