Transcripts For DW The 20240704

Stuff done for the what is being reported is very serious. Thats why it is necessary to begin a factory, still running, intensive and rescued investigation. And we hope that somehow, i mean even through the media, we will learn about what this investigation has come to the welcome to the day a german administrative called it a wakeup call on the f, a to destabilize the country. On friday, rush and state media published a sensitive conversation between for jim in general was on the war and ukraine in the late audio recording the head of the german apples left tenant general in go get hots and other Senior Officers discuss the potential use of german made total risk miss files to attack your trans cash bridge or the bridge of same volume, right . As i assume hands. So lets start with the, the link itself. What did we learn from is about to germany and this toward dismissal and system that building has been refusing to 17, you create as well. First of all, we have to look at the situation there as the chief of the air force trying to get some information from some of his most senior colleagues that he is preparing for a briefing of the pride of the defense, minnesota. On this whole question of whether or not this michelle can be deployed to ukraine. What exactly that would mean . And as a driven transport without charles has been saying all along that he wants job and you go to retain control of the targeting of these massage wants to be sure that the missiles, im not used by ukraine to hitch targets and russia even potentially targets close or around most call shots has been saying, so these top Ministry Officers were discussing exactly those issues. How could one deliverance to your train . How could one make sure that the targeting was controlled by germany. But at the same time, without deploying german soldiers on ukrainian. So, so, so what we have here is a preparation for a briefing, but also to sons some extent, a sense of a feeling amongst joe, in the german top generals, that they might, in fact support the deployment of the as mrs. So while the government or certainly johns electrolysis very strictly against that. Okay, so how did the russians break into this conversation as well . Thats the question that everyones asking. We dont really know. What we do know is that it was the conversation was being held on across the, on the, on a sort of open line on a conference, a platform that so many people use all the time these days. And we all know that for that you need to normally a kind of id number and the password to enter such a conversation. Possibly the russians were able to find those keys, those passwords and then enter into this conversation. We dont know exactly. And the question of why such on that open line was being used certainly is being honest everywhere. And it seems that well it certainly one of the offices wasnt a single pull at the time. So possibly that was one reason why i normally secure a mandatory system could not be used. Ok, this must be particularly embarrassing football. And because as, as i understand, this is the 2nd time senior jim is have revealed the details about british deployments in your crime because that was part of the school and the, the, the german chancellor. I made a similar revelation about a week ago. So yes indeed, the best friends and a great person have deployed similar sorts of messiahs to ukraine, that they have a shorter range not quite as far reaching as a gym, the sales, but very similar to in other, other technical aspects. And it appears that the french and british soldiers are quite possibly in ukraine, helping with the targeting of these miss owls and assessing that youre trying in the Defense Forces and actually putting them to you as in assisting them in the war. This was mentioned in passing by charlottes a last week, sometime and again by these generals, excuse me, by these journalists in their conversation. And it was also the implications that, that might be American United states soldiers somehow active in your credit. And so thats something very, excuse me, please. As something bigger and better, i think best a joe many and for its nice to allies. Is there likely to be any diplomatic a full lot from this so far, the reactions from washington and from, from london have been very rare to send to the the official reaction has been thats a job and it has to clear up what happened there. That this is a matter of that to him and he has to investigate. But obviously its something thats uh, behind close stories is going to cause quite heated discussions that, uh uh, the reliability of germany is called into question in a situation where we actually with there is actually a role in Eastern Europe and where these decisions that are being taken these discussions that are being held at impact to the situation on the ground in ukraine. So as we presume russia, ive been listening in all these calls for some time. And what do you think it was about this information that made must go decides that now was the time to reveal that hand a folder with the 2 aspects of this. The one is the timing from a Russian Point of view. And that to have to do with the fact that last week was the burial of, of a alex in about any, a prominent critic of the russian government who died, who was basically killed by the russians while in prison, to distract uh attention from that this was published adjuster at the same time basically. So that was one aspect. The other aspect obviously is that here in germany discussion about this tourism besides system has been ongoing for months. Its revealed some tensions within the even the governing coalition ends of the German Government just under a lot of pressure, but from large costs of a public lot. Also, especially from the conservative opposition in this country to actually deploy these a, these mishaps to give them to ukraine. So by giving hates to this discussion by participating in the sense in this discussion by embarrassing the German Government, embarrassing going off shows. Russia is clearly causing a fracture as a, an increase in the fractures discussion here in germany. So that also, obviously we consider the drug and positioning this whole a matter of a war and ukraine. Okay, so finally and briefly heads likely to roll over this i think it seems very, very like a heads all going to roll. The question is whether the head of the air force himself is going to have to leave his position. But certainly people would have to take responsibility for this. How you hand. So i think every Political Correspondent has prompt hows it, how you see why the government says . Because i have the state of emergency as violence escalates the gangs demanding the Prime Ministers resignation, have attacked 2 prisoners along thousands of inmates to escape. Leaving dozens dead and wounded islands has reached unprecedented levels since the assassination of president driven n y c. And his hopes in 2021. If estimates, if, again, its not controlled as much as 80 percent of the capital portal profs Prime Minister in all re travel out of the country last week to try and drum up support for a multinational piece mission to bring these kind of 5 ins under control lets look at this with robert from jr. Hes the julia, a cooper, professor of government and following the fast and the problem to follow 6 of the university of virginia is many publications include the haitis, predatory, the public, the other ending transition to democracy, and how you think trapped in the out a periphery welcome to the w, a professor, im hating now, has a 70 to our state of emergency, but the government doesnt seem to be in control. Or yeah, the government hasnt been in control for a while. But this situation i, i think as did there youre rid significant, significant says, or level of the box 48 hours. There is a situation of the total vacuum of the institution of power. The 5 minutes, as we said, is out of the country. And its for, its getting very difficult for him to get back to poll west because the airport itself is closed and the situation on the ground is extremely violent. And the games are really accentuate. There will certainly see against the current regime of volume early and the warranty is really, it was, some is the most of the gains which tended to be divided as united for the 1st time. And now waging the campaign that is regular sophisticated using good against key institutions of the country and key strategic infrastructure, the country. So we all get truly on the verge of collapse. So i read only the Prime Minister in kenya to discuss and i came yet led, Multinational Security force coming in to haiti. So many questions that shows up with the, the biggest one, of course, why isnt the haitian all me up to the task as well . The haitian army was disbanded under 4 former president , aristide and it is trying to reconstitute itself. And actually today there was news that requested you to the army, which ex, dreamily weak and very poorly armed, is trying to get up to the National Airport in full past in order to prevent the collapse of that major infrastructure in the country. So its difficult to tell whether the army can in fact do anything about the violence of the games. The police was the main course, the force of the government, but the police itself is extremely weak. It does need to be siege by lack of weapons and also by significant amount of corruption. And its a small for these even different relation of the country. So most of the institutions that would keep things together. Ill no longer in existence in a while they are on future or a state of collapse. Okay, so i, im the, one of the lead is one of the main leaders of vis, vis based volume is actually a former police officer. This guy has become known as, as barbecue, and as he was saying, so he says im groups have now united to, to say the Prime Minister must go, should we look at these. So the lens of politically motivated violence that full forward is, is just criminal, as it is both actually it is criminal because the games are really daunting. Some really awful criminal things to do when people read something, people, kids not being with people and also focusing the significant number of patients leaving in the 4 areas of full best to exit. There no call outside of the inhabitants. Theres something i tree. And with that was in a patients love being marginalized, and ill now actually internal migrant displace, migrating fold for us itself. But there is a political reason for that. And the political reason is that they population at large, even the population that does not at all support the games. Well, god forbid, asian used to put it crudely fed up with the current situation. And with the current regime, the current regime has been promising elections the new Constitution Order for the past 2 years. And he does absolutely failed to deliver on those promises. So days of Political Sentiment among the vast majority of the situation is no longer terrible. And most people in hazy would like to see that regime the current government got. Okay, so following on from that as far as you are aware, is there a plan for what happens after i should say, if i suppose, but after peace is restored . Because the country was desperately poor and failing, even before all this happened as well. There is no clear plans there is to talk about the international nation lead by kenya. But the post a violence stage, as it were, is not clear. Its very difficult for me to see all you can of elections, even the Current Conditions and hate. So ultimately, i believe that if you want to extricate the countries from that correct catastrophe, you need to have the Transitional Government of national unity. But the problem is that the different functions of the nation pretty to go cloth can not agree on anything. And unless there is agreements, you can have the Transitional Government. And the other question obviously is what do you do with the gags . Even if you, it reestablished with both the government secure the, all the games going to be marginalized at the jail on youre going to have to read corporate them into the more all community of the nation. Thats a huge question and theres no good answer going. Summit conditions or public yeah. Conditions are for for the all such that the nurture, the creation of games, you have the boss population of young man will have no future at all. No, it couldnt be staking anything. So the so therefore the move to that display situation of becoming gang members. Right . So given that it is questionable whether the pay the Prime Minister. Com or will return. And indeed, whether this, this, this military mission led by can, you can even be successful. How do you think this latest crisis will be resolved . So i think eventually there will be some kind of intervention, international intervention. Unless the act except to complete collapse and chaos in the country, we try pick the International Community will not tolerate. And this is especially the case, even the United States and some electro all year and president by then theres so many different crisis that he probably doesnt want to have. Another one is as they put it in the United States in his back yard, and that might be linked to the problem of integration. Now in order to have a solution, you need to get the issue on political blast to get together. If you dont the agreement among the haitian key actors, that is difficult to see what can be done. And then hopefully, this crisis. And this latest event, well compel haitians to come to an agreement and have some sort of a national Transitional Government of unity. Ok. Professor robert fast and junior from the university of virginia. Thank you so much for a guiding us. Are clearly through that. Thank you so much. I or the police have conducted we can drive here in ballard and is a 100 for 2 of germanys most wanted terrorist suspects. Men are accused of being active in the red army fox, and thats a medicine Left Wing Group of cataracts, a series of motors, kidnappings. Bombings and robberies. The 1970s to the 1990s. Another suspected fugitive was arrested last month in san antonio on a platter. Been hiding in plain sight, tundra, fake identity, tutoring, school children. Im teaching capital, advert classes in the neighborhood where she lived. Oh, heres what. Oh sorry, i just had to say shortly after her arrest, then youd like to discuss done in the class who was arrested yesterday in berlin. She and 2 other Red Army Faction terrace subpoena under investigation for years for attempted murder and various robberies. Im sure the old 3 suspects belonged to the 3rd generation of the Red Army Faction, depending on the run since the 19 ninetys. Theyve been associated with numerous serious offences, some of which date back 25 years. When michael called the home from the Investigative Journalism website, valid cats as a trace to daniella, collected to violate and last year, months before she was arrested. A welcome to the w. And why was she on your radar . Thats what she was on my radar because some german journalist had actually reached out to me and well reached out to boeing cat. And then to me, wondering if there was anything that we could do wondering if there were any digital investigative techniques that we could use to maybe look at the some of the older photos of these 3 individuals who were a logically part of the our a us i really wasnt expecting to find anything i wasnt expecting when, especially searching for pictures of faces that are the photos themselves that were you know, 20 years old. If not more, i wasnt expecting any, anything more at most. Maybe an interesting bit of information here there about what one of them might have been involved with. I thought it was really kind of the end up almost like a brief exercise or Training Like we do at bell and got on how some of these digital investigative techniques worked. But obviously as the events over the last week showed, my expectations were they were exceeded. Right. So just tell us briefly what you did. And so you took bass 20 year old, a photos and did want me. What i did was i, i use the publicly available facial recognition tool. Its a, a website thats publicly available. And what i did was i use this tool to search for photos online of what the algorithm for lack of a better word. What the algorithm finks is of our faces and photos that match the person in the photo that youre searching for. So in other words, if you put my face into, into this tool, youre going to, youre going to find many pictures of me cooperating various turn listed in the various events journalistic conferences hiding in the background because my camera in places like that. And usually if, when you use this tool, if, if you choose to use this kind of tool a huge, you dont get results quite like what i got with the, the situation with daniella collector. What i did was i searched using very briefly using these old photos. And i wasnt expecting any significant results. But what i did find were several photos of a woman. The algorithm stock, most likely the same person of photos that were of a woman at a capital r, a center in berlin, associated with like a, a german brazilian, uh, friendship foundation. So when i did, when i found those images and you know, i kind of looked closely at the faces and i thought, okay, this is, these could possibly be the same person. When i that was, i used another publicly available tool and i have to stress the publicly available part of this. I use that tool to compare the, the 2 faces. So the older photos are collect the and then the then your photos that might be glad to. And in every instance comparing them, the program said this is very likely the same person. Oh, this is not what i was expecting. But the general harsh is, have been looking for, for this woman, for 30 years. So then have they not been doing this, as im not sure say itd been using these kinds of tools because to be honest, im not entirely sure. So sure that the German Authorities are legally allowed to use some of these tools even though they are publicly available and they may and i suspect theyre going to be more of these kinds of tools made publicly available because of germanys uh, you know, very strict privacy laws per i, i suspect that they were not in a position to use these tools, but ironically, anybody in the public all i was now i use the i use these tools and with the, with the german journalist from a r d a to try to find more that they then followed the lead that i found. And we basically published our findings for lack of a better word on a german language podcast in december where this information was revealed. But we now know from german Law Enforcement that they said they got a tip about to collect to back in november. Now that certainly didnt come from me. Ive had no communication with Law Enforcement, nor have the other journalists involved in. This was just on the why is, why didnt you have a involvement with, with Law Enforcement . If so you found one of germanys what has been said the fugitives and it sounds like you didnt pass your findings onto the police. In principle, i dont uh do any, some sort of communication or anything like that with Law Enforcement, thats not my job. I see myself as a journalist and researcher thats in the principle of where it comes from. But there is actually a more, a more mundane, the reason why i wouldnt have even thought of it is, i assume if i found it, surely, some Law Enforcement authority in the European Unions largest country was already aware of that. I assume that i found something that was, you know, maybe a bit interesting, especially for, for journalists, especially for people interested in, in these, these kinds of research tools. But i never thought for a 2nd like that i found some sort of, but i never thought that i found her person. Okay, fascinating. Thank you so much for joining us until it gets through that. So Michael Caldwell from baton kat. Thank it. To find the strong winds that pushed thousands of tumbleweeds into several times and even in the United States, rather than say that the streets have come to resemble scenes from the west of some of the towns of sony falls of blocks and roads and surrounded homes mentioned his highest, the rooms of some buildings, the im not was that you can follow a team on social media at dw news latest headlines around the clock, of course on dw dot com on the dfw app on data on not dw socials at d, w use a good, the not laughing anymore. The why the, the new electric vehicle force from china, from revolutionary Battery Manufacturer to the top a spot in the market is the spark. Finally, writings of the west rev on d. W. 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