President pence and state Election Officials. The American People can be tough to read sometimes which confounds many in the modern media, well over half of our fellow citizens believe the former president did engage in criminal conduct and half thank you should be elected president again. By the American People are they for unforgiving or are the American People tired of the sanctimony of those who see flaws and everyone except themselves. I dont know how large the constituency is for fairness to friend and foe for the equal application of the law regardless of politics. I do know the American People have a unique internal sense of what is fair and just and what is not. These are going to be challenging days for our country. We had a president wants a long time ago who was a trial lawyer and famously said may justice be done though the heavens fall. Nowadays it seems more apt that we would hear may my side when no matter what. We are joined by two men that prosecution covered state and federal elliott file and brett tolman. Welcome to you both, elliott let me start with you. Sometimes prosecutors get stuck with unsavory witnesses. But it looks like the former Vice President mike pence might be a Star Witness For The Prosecution whether he wants to be or not, what you make of that. Those huge part of the indictment if im the prosecutor on this case i would lean into moment were donald trump said to mike pence the problem is your too honest. If im the prosecutor i would hit that hard, logically speaking when would you say to someone you are too honest to do this unless you knew deep down that thing you are asking them to do was in fact just honest. Donald trump to go to rallies and say mike pence is a rino were communist, knock yourself out, say that all day long but good luck to the trial lawyer that has to stand up in front of a jury and say ladies and gentlemen, of the jury mike pence is not somebody takes the oath to tell the truth seriously. Trey that is an insult and i dont know if ive ever heard that before in life the 70s to honest. Brett former u. S. Attorney, politicians do live from time to time. I dont want to upset either one of you guys that never ran for office but politicians do live from time to time they even claim they won when they did not. But what makes this criminal fraud as opposed to the normal political fraud. Thank you for having me on i will tell you there is a legal and factual analysis that a prosecutor goes through in deciding whether or not something is criminal and here the real concern that i have is the creativity of crop under prosecutors as of late i still dont believe that prosecutor should be creative. Were supposed to have a system where you have a clear statute that has been violated, Criminal Intent to violate that statute in the facts supported and then you charge that. The real concern you have coconspirators that are lawyers giving advice, there is no real analysis of the advice of counsel defense the Criminal Intent part of the case that is required and thats the concern going into this, this is a political case where the civil law wouldve been adequate to address and deal with the dishonesty about politician who i do think lawfully can be dishonest and we see politicians doing it every day in this country. Trey alright elliott, brett raises a good point, bad facts make for tough law, that is an old Adage Law School i dont want is a bad facts but the interesting ufa collect tours, Pressure Campaign on the Vice President , yet calls of the state Election Officials in january 6 what happened at the capital. Elliott is it possible something to be an awful, awful day for the country but still not meet the elements as brett noted as a criminal statute . Sure that certainly can be the case, the problem with the freespeech argument, donald trump wouldnt be under indictment if he had 50 or hundred or thousand rallies if he simply said falsely that the election was stolen were widespread fraud, no evidence he would not be under indictment if he had done that, where the crossed the line that fake electors gathered in state capitals after the Secretary Of State and the governor signed certification that biden had won the state. If i can make an analogy and come on your show and send the real trey gowdy i run on the streets of new york or South Carolina and say im the real trey gowdy. If i go home and. Out a fake drivers license or Birth Certificate and walk into your bank and sam trey gowdy im here to take out my money then i crossed the line to fraud and forgery and it attempted grand larceny i dont think there was a good faith basis for electors to sign fake or false certificate saying they were duly elected and duly certified. Nothing is a good faith basis for saying to mike pence you should take those rather than the real ones. Trey elliott, i have to caution you as your friend and a lawyer, do not come to South Carolina and say you are me, youre much more popular in my home state that i am so you need to come down here and say your elliott or maybe brett but our viewers are grateful to have two people know what theyre talking about, and share it with us. Thank you for joining us On A Sunday Night. Thank you. Trey lots of questions this week including ones on d. O. J. And hunter Biden Corruption in politics. We love hearing whats on your mind, lets get right to it we start with a question from steve who wants to know what are your views on the d. O. J. Conduct on the hunter biden, biden family investigation. Im certain there are things that i do not know but from what is known that looks like its a really long time to achieve a very modest result, the agents involved, some of them believe the prosecutors handled the case differently showed preference for the target of the investigation. I doubt anyone leaves the u. S. Attorney actually had the power to do what he wanted to do with the president son in the attorney general, the fbi director in the white house could not stop it if they wanted it to. I find that hard to impossible to believe. I would need to know how many people were prosecuted for conduct similar to hunter biden and how those cases were handled and they need to know what specific lines of inquiry or evidence were ignored. What i know for certain people have were rapidly losing confidence to the prosecutors prethe president son is facing a very tiny slap on the wrist and a promise to do better next time while the president s chief rival for the white house in 2024 is facing 500 years in prison. Fiona from north dakota, and hey trey, do you think its possible to have an investigation or an indictment of trump that is independent of any political motive. Possible, yes, likely, not in our current environment, you use the phrase of independent of political motive. Lets start with how we make sure something is independent. How do we find investigators and prosecutors to avoid a bias, devoid of wanting to advance a political narrative willing to say my friends are wrong in my enemies are right, willing to say that justice must be done even though the heavens may fall. We should ask whether trump or anyone else is being treated the same way others have been treated, has others lied to advance politically decisions influence other than the law or the facts. Take a survey of those who investigated trump, have the universally proven their critics right, jim comey, andy mccabe, peter strzok, james clapper, Andrew Wiseman were all empowered to investigate trump, all have and retain a d hatred of him. If youre looking for fairness or independence do not pick investigators or prosecutors who love or hate the targets of their investigation. Everyone on the side of jesus, my mom and my wife are capable of doing something wrong, something unlawful, as such is the nature of humankind. That includes former president trump, he like the rest of humankind is fully capable of committing criminal acts but the public must have confidence in the objectivity, the fairness, the historical equality, the confidence, the independence of those investigating prosecutors. Many people in this country do not believe in the objectivity of prosecutors anymore and that is true actually on both sides of the political aisle. Our last question comes from sharon from murray kentucky. Hey trey, what is your opinion on the best way to deal with the corruption of washington . Send a better people. Politics is not going to be fixed with term limits were laws preventing stockownership or campaignfinance reform, those are all good ideas and youre welcome to do them if you want to but that is not going to cure the problem which some of the people tracked into politics. While i was there i did not see that many people change during those eight years i so good people remain good people and rarely make the news. I saw psychopaths remain that way and become household names. If you come to Congress Corrupt you will leave that way. They come to congress a good decent honest person you can leave that way youre just less likely to get notice coming or going. So to blame washington is to ignore something even older than politics which is pride and ambition and ego. If you want a Better Congress for less corruption send better people. Many good people are not interested in serving or if they are serving the looking for the exits pretty soon after they get there. If you have a question email us at gowdy america fox. Com. The Facebook Files is this more evidence of big tech deciding what is or is not true what role should government play in deciding what speech is free and what speech needs guardrails. Is the purpose of free speech to elucidate the truth or are we willing to put up with lies as a consequence of living and every society. Colorado congressman and House Judiciary Committee member kim has dedicated a good portion of his service in congress to these comp located issues. And he joins us now. Congressman, lets start with your committee your own judiciary committee. You been talking about Big Tech And Social Media way before it was popular to do so so you are the perfect person for me to ask. What if you learn from facebook were now called meta and what do you want or need to know to inform your investigation. First of all we learned a lot about censorship from meta, amazon, apple, google. We learned they are run by a group of liberals woke stores from california we learned that that opinion informs their decisions on what is reasonable and what is unreasonable and they have consistently taken down information on social media platforms like facebook that they decide is dangerous or is this information. We have seen that but even more we have seen instances where they take down videos and other material from very respected conservative thinkers because it disagrees with their views on social issues and other issues. What you and i know as the constitution prohibits the government from interfering in the press and the media and deciding the social media. Alright congressman your deep thinker of deep philosophical, the very people, you are somebody i ask. Im pretty sure you went to princeton and im pretty sure you were on the football team. If i was to say you are on social media and will god forbid went to cornell in water water polo that is not true should i be able to save on a platform doesnt matter how deeply i believe that to be true even though it is not. How do we determine what is true and what is not true or is that even the job of social media. If we look at the things that were said about Abraham Lincoln when he ran for president and when he served as president. People in this country would be astounded and get off of this disinformation high horse and understand that the answer, the Supreme Court said this the answer to lies and misinformation and disinformation is more truth. Is not to suppress or censor the statements. No, i did not play Water Polo At Cornell but if someone said that i did that is okay, especially as an elected official im going to take more incoming and lies but i also platform to try to get my version of the facts and the truth after crete is really dangerous for the left and primarily the left and most on the right think if you Say Something will judge who says it and will judge the content but the folks on the left are really embracing this idea that this information has to be taken off social media because it is dangerous and to take those down and not allow americans to engage in the discourse that is necessary is defensive tour former government. Trey The Search For Truth is never ending and thank you ken buck, take care of yourself. Thank you, you also. Trey the fight against the june Supreme Court justice begins when you are up for Appellate Court judge. He continues well beyond their conversation to the high court. Now a senator from illinois of all places is concerned about ethics. Judicial Crisis Network president ke the impact of a meal goes well beyond feeding our bodies. Food can open Endless Possibilities for people to thrive. Because when people are fed. Futures are nourished. Everyone deserves to live a full life. And with your help, together we can end hunger. Join the movement at feedingamerica. Org actnow trey welcome back to Sunday Night In America members of congress have become more aggressive in criticizing members of the Supreme Court at least one justice is pushing back a little bit. Justice samuel alito is doubtful congress can impose Ethics Guidelines on the high court. A recent interview said congress did not create the Supreme Court, no provision of the constitution gives them the authority to regulate the Supreme Court. Carrie severino is the president of the judicial Crisis Network enjoins us now. Im going back 30 years was is an extremely dangerous thing for me to do but i think the constitution provides for Chief Justice and that is about it. Alito was right that the court is constitutional but funding and jurisdiction and the number nine. I guess all of that does come from congress, doesnt it . To a certain extent they can change the number of justices and alito has pointed this out himself if they want to they could pack the court. It would be politically horrible idea and incredibly damaging to the institution. A lot of mischief they can do but trying to regulate the court and intimidated by the Ethics Guidelines undermines another part of the constitution that the court is the Supreme Court, there is no one over this court, trying to put other judges in control of who sits in the case is simple enough possible. Trey i think Justice Kagan sometime in the last 2436 hours was giving an address in the justice seems remarkably cordial towards one another she made it very clear she was not attacking or disagreeing with justice alito. Her point was congress can provide something of a check that each one of the branches has a check including the Supreme Court. For those under the misapprehension that there is no ethics rules that the Supreme Court justice can do whatever they wanted you, im going to let you disabuse people who may believe that. That is absolutely not the case, there are recusal guidelines and disclosure guidelines that the Supreme Court justice all follows, whats problematic about this legislation it purports to set up a whole new system where another whole set of judges is guessing who gets to sit on court cases, Justice Breyer has spoken in the past about why this can be dangerous with nine justices and Everybody Knows what each one of them stands on the spectrum. It would be very easy to strategically try to recuse justices from cases. Instead of packing the court by getting justices on, how can we subtract justices and force justices on the court. There is not a way to do that. There is a constitutional check on the court just like all the justice and branches have checks, that is called impeachment. If injustice were to be corrupt and commit serious crimes and its happened before. They can be impeached. That is the real check not that congress can be breathing down their next looking over their shoulders and that opens the door. In the Supreme Court of the constitution dictates. I hate to sound oldfashioned im not used to the Supreme Court being a political football on not used to seeing justices to attack because of opinions. Yours to that justice kolya got almost every boat in Ruth Bader Ginsburg got almost every boat. What is happening in respect to the judiciary and how its being treated. I think the way the public is being treated as a reaction to what is happening with the approach of justices in the court. Most of the last century the Court Despite the fact the majority of the nominees were by republican president s the court was very liberal giving the left and in many cases the media and a lot of the members of con