On trump. Im howard kurtz and this is mediabuzz. The debate will be hosted by bret baier and Martha Maccallum. I spoke to the anchor of the story from new york. Martha maccallum, welcome. Hi, howie, good to be with you. Howie i havent seen a build up like this for a first debate at the beginning of a campaign since that 2015 Fox Debate With Political Newcomer donald trump. I turned to the other channels i see fox debate. What are people saying . Why do you think that is . I think theres a lot of enthusiasm. I think people are much more politically engaged and probably since that 2015 debate and i think that people see this as , you know, entertainment that is very eye opening in terms of whats going on in the political world, so i think its a huge opportunity for these candidates on this stage and we see it acrosstheboard that people are just more interested in politics they are more interested in whats going on, so i think its great. Howie people didnt talk about politics or talk about civilians now as much as they do now. You would think that donald trump having a massive lead in the primary as much as 40 points in national polls, that that would take some of the zing, some of the suspense out of it but that doesnt seem to be the case. You know why i think that is , howie . Ive been looking a lot at the polling that we have just coming in over the course of this week and that lead, you know, shows up in a lot of polls, and it looks durable at least for now, but what you also see in these polls is that theres that kind of 37 that are solid trump supporters. Then youve got 30 and change that say im persuadable. These are all Republican Voters in this poll. 37plus, im persuadable, im open. 25 say they put themselves in the nevertrump category, right . So thats about 63 who are open to someone else, interested in someone else, and people say, you know, they look at all these other candidates what are they doing . Hes so far ahead but when you look at it that way you can see why they do see a path. It is early on. There are going to be a lot of shifts and one of the most interesting things to watch on wednesday night, you know, a couple people will really stand out. A couple people may end this race for themselves that night so it will widdle down and thats the other reason people are excited to watch. Howie trump has made it clear now hes not coming and let me refrain that because he loves to inflate a guessing game, so there could be last minute surprise, but lets assume that he sticks with his position. Does he become less of a spectacle, not just lower ratings but does the Star Power Go Down to put it historically . I find it interesting. Hes made a couple of choices in the path 24 hours or so, howie. One was that he canceled that News Conference that he was going to have on monday morning, right . So hes not going to come out and state his opinion and his case in the georgia situation and then do you know just a few hours later no im not going to debate either so im kind of wondering whats going on, why hes turning down these opportunities to speak to the american people, on the one hand that has me curious as someone who covers this race. On the other hand, i think that this makes a huge opportunity for all of these other candidate s because if hes not there, they are going to have a lot of space to really make themselves heard, and some of them will start to chip away at his numbers. Theres no doubt about it so i think that makes it even in some ways more interesting, actually, howie. Howie i think the spotlight will shine a little more brightly on them. Unlike any campaign in our lifetimes, Donald Trumps four indictments are dominating his campaign more than the debates i would say. I look at the coverage and its less Iowa State Fair and more Courtroom Hearings about scheduling. I think it was the Wall Street Journal a week or so ago that said this was a carnival that is rotating between courtrooms and rallies, and i think that is a very apt look on what were going to be watching. This is a completely unprecedented political experience when you have a layer and weve been keeping a running chart, to show how it all lines up with iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, march 5 super tuesday. All of that on top of these court dates that are put throughout the entire process. It will happen per him because he will have to spend time on these issues, and you know, how it plays well see , but weve seen that these indictments have only fueled peoples support for him. There are people who are rally ing to his side, because of them, but i think overtime and watching this play out youll have other people who are in that 62 who are saying you know maybe theres some place where theres a little bit less drama and the same kind of effectiveness so i dont know. Thats the opportunity though thats out there for these other candidates. Howie theres not much question as in the primary, of course a general electoral is a different situation but martha, a majority of republicans according to the polls that weve all seen, believe that these indictments are the result of a Weaponized Justice Department or a partisan democratic district attorneys, and theyre not interested in the details. They sort of tune it out so you think that that in some ways muscles the impact. You know, i think thats really unfortunate and i dont think its that surprising, howie. I mean, they see situations whether its Hillary Clinton and donald trump or hunter biden and connections that have been laid out by a number of witnesses to joe biden that people, that there should be more curiosity driving these issues, right . But they see one situation and handle it one way and one the other way and i think the distrust in the system and the Department Of Justice and the fbi, those are at levels we havent seen in a long time. I think those institutions should really be asking themselves how is this happening how have we allowed this trust to deteriorate . Its a very serious issue in the country so i think thats why you get a little bit of tune out to the details because people are not trusting it which is something that i hope these institutions start taking very seriously at some point. Howie were just in a hyper partisan situation. Chris cristi may be the toughest debater on that stage and he laid out for me what he was going to do when he was on immediate mediabuzz and hes moved up a little bit in the polls but many republicans believe hes just trying to tear down trump in other words some of that support may or may not go to him. Well see. Yeah, hes a fighter, and he, its very interesting to me that chris cristi story, because he had an opportunity to run for president and that turned out to be romneys Rom It Nation and he decided to wait and be governor again so a lot of people thought it wasnt a path for him. He has a path in new hampshire. Its not huge but hes neck and neck with ron desantis right now so hes getting attention in that lane. Hes saying im in that lane with those 63 . Those are my people. The people who are already in the trump category, they arent interested in me and thats fine thats why hes not even going to iowa, so i think this story is far from written, howie, and i think that chris cristi is one of the interesting people to watch in it. Howie yeah, absolutely, and its also interesting and we have that leaked memo from Desantis Pack saying dont attack trump, in fact defend him , if cristi asks a question, so hes got his or her own strategy and some of them just dont want to offend trumps loyal base thinking they can peel off some of those voters. How many of the barbs do you think will be aimed at President Biden or do you think well see a lot more republican on republican violence . Well they have to get through both hoops right . The first hoop they have to get through is the republican hoop so they have to, to some extent, go at each other, or they have to really stand out on their own and make people sit up and take notice, and then after that, theyve got to get through the hoop of going up against joe biden at least if he turns out to be the candidate he certainly appears to be on that track right now. Anything can happen, but you know, they have to kind of thread that needle pretty carefully but they do have to, we watched how the former President Trump just sort of picked people off one after another on that debate stage, and so that is part of the process. Well see if the way he did it changes the game when we get to milwaukee. Howie all of them have their prepared oneliners. Does that make it more of a clam edge for you to try to get beyond that and get to the substance what would you actually do about whatever the issue is . I think thats the challenge you know it well, howie, of listening to the answer and see ing if theyre actually making attempt to answer the question that was asked and then circling back around pinning them down to it if they havent. Politicians are very good at launching into it and you saw it in that desantis memo. Say these things, at least three to five times, right . Hes not alone. They are all having these same kind of meetings. These are the points you want to be sure to hit over and over so yes, i think when you start to hear that drone, you want to jump in and say no, no, wait a minute this is the question were talking about and we need answer so were moderators in this environment, its not a one on one interview situation which is different than this. Its for us to put that question out there and hopefully we get some debate going on that between the candidates because thats why they call it a debate howie youve done this many times, but i have to ask given the global attention to this first debate. Are you feeling some pressure . Of course. You know, but thats the kind of pressure we thrive on, right . We like these big moments. We love covering them, and it forces you to really buckle down and do your homework. Fortunately we have a great team , brett and i have worked together a lot over the years, and were putting our Heads Together everyday for several hours a day, and it definitely is the kind of thing you wake up in the morning and start jotting things down on your phone because you want to figure out a better way to ask a question but its really actually the pinnacle of the kind of thing we love to do, so were excited. Howie big game, big pressure, Martha Maccallum, thanks for joining us. Great to see you as always. Howie when we come back, Donald Trumps fourth indictment but doesnt each set of new charges boost the former president . You wont overpay for glasses if you shop at americas best. They offer two pairs and a free, quality eye exam starting at just 79. 95. I can see from your expression that you find that shocking. Aaaaaaaand, you dont have ears. Book an exam today at americasbest. Com. Light Acoustic Music PlaysEagle Screeches energetic music plays there he is its right there oh, hes straight ahead. Hes straight ahead. Straight ahead. Go go go. Cover more ground in the kia sportage turbohybrid. Kia. Movement that inspires. I was born on the south side of chicago. It has been a long road, but now im working for schwab. I love to help people understand the world through their lens and invest accordingly. You can call us Christmas Eve at four oclock in the morning. Were gonna always make sure that you have all of the financial tools and support to secure your financial future. That means a lot for my community and for every community. Howie we all knew that Fannie Willis the d. A. In Fulton County georgia was beginning to bring a racketeering case against trump, though we didnt know there be 18 other defendants including Rudy Giuliani and mark meadows. The participants in association took various actions in georgia and elsewhere to block the county of the votes of the president ial electors. Thats exactly why all of these indictments are happening now. Make trump look like a criminal. Then next year, in 2024, trap the leading republican in court. Drain his resources. Here is where it goes off the rails. He promises evidence, which we all know now doesnt exist, for his very base less claims of fraud. After i read through this latest indictment of trump, i found myself asking, how can we now really say that were any better than what were seeing in the old former soviet union . The president of the United States has absolutely no power to intervene in any way in the Georgia Criminal Prosecution of Donald Trumps criminal enterprise. Howie joining us now to analyze the coverage in new york , rich lawry and in washington marie har, former state Department Spokeswoman and fox news contributor. Rich the media is been in wall to wall mode since fani willis delivered these indictments and this is the case where trump tells gathering gary cohen secretary of state i need you to find 11, 780 votes. Is this indictment having a big impact . Its bigger than some of the others. Its hard to keep track now, howard. Howie thats key and we do this for a living. We do this for a living. Yeah, so it gives trump a shortterm fundraising balance but weve learned recently, you know, his funding has basically been drained by all the legal fees involved and the prosecutions and it gives him the attention of the candidates they all have to talk about trump thats all that matters and creates a Sympathy Effect among republicans and republicans think its intuitive ly correct when trump was saying they could indict for any of the stuff at any time if i was just going playing golf , retired they wouldnt indict me. They are on this schedule right now in order as pete hegseth was saying there to tie me up with legal fees and to tie me down in terms of time and resources next year. Howie right. Well that assumes its an organized effort because obviously you have state and federal prosecutions. We were always shocked that trump seems to go up after each indictment has a huge republican primary lead but we look at the overall overall electorate in the latest fox news poll slate majority says the former president committed serious crimes in these investigations. Is that part of it being overlooked . I think so, howie, and look, martha made some really good points in the last segment with that great interview you did. Howie thank you. About the huge percentage of republican primary voters not general electorate voters republican primary voters looking for someone else, and we see every time theres an indictment he does raise money off of it but if you look at the sec data from the last quarter that we now have, each time, he raises a little less. So its like every time theres another indictment, i think up until this latest round, which comes to 91 indictments, right, howie . We wouldnt hire someone to work with us, im not sure why republican primary voters some want to make him president but every time we see this , his support wanes a little bit so i totally agree with martha. I dont think this story is over yet. Were in totally unprecedented times and i dont think we can assume when he gets in court, all of this evidence against him during the primaries that that will not mean that someone else wont rise to the top. I think the story is far from over. Howie well the voters will get their say. Rich, through multiple indictments lose their impact and shock value. The first time the former president of the United States never happen when they reported for the fourth time. Yup, yeah, just personally, i watched the first arraignment. I watched the Motorcade Heading to the courthouse, in manhattan and then i was talking to a friend i think it was the january 6 indictment i forget, which, and he was telling me i have it on right now. Hes heading into the courtroom im like what . I forgot about it. It didnt even interest me so yeah, its lost its shock value but look these are serious legal cases. Howie especially this one. Maybe they arent tried before the nomination is settled i think its kind of hard the timing. To say were going to indict him on all this stuff and try him immediately on all of them has just in hair entertainment due process issues, right . Because how many trials can you prepare for at once, but they certainly want to do something before the general election and they are just inherently tied up in politics and i just think its the whole thing is a bad idea and probably going to end badly. Howie that sets up my next question because if you just look at georgia, as you know, Rudy Giuliani is ripping fani willis saying this is ridiculous application racketeering laws, mark meadows wants to move trial to federal court. Why would fani willis want to try 19 cases and deal with 19 lawyers and sets of objections . Well, thats a great question. Im not a legal expert. I will defer to her on how she wants to handle this prosecution but georgia is a great example politically, howie. The fact that donald trump is screwed up the republican operation in that state they lost two senate seats. He lost the state to joe biden, and that state that is in many ways quite conservative is now trending blue so i think, howie, there are a lot of Republican Voters when asked by a pollster foil loyalty of donald trump and say they will vote for him but privately when they get in that voting booth i think they vote for someone else. I think they vote for mike pence , lets not sleep on him. I think they vote for ron desantis and vote for tim scott. Howie we shall see. Some of the polls are a little skewed potentially. Howie donald trump canceled a Press Conference he was going to have tomorrow. I want put the graphic up but he says he has evidence about the election in georgia but his lawyers say he should present it in some more formal legal fashion. Donald trump listens to his lawyers . Yeah, i know, this goes to wha