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removal? and what might persuade them to do so? >> there's always that potential. it's hard to -- to see in the minds of those around him, but russian leaders have generally been opportunists, at best. the question is, is that what we need? what we're seeking strategically is to change russian behavior. whether it's putin or someone else, i don't really think other than some grass roots revolution that brings forth democracy is really going to make russia a friend of the west, not based on those who are in the circles of power. but what we do want to find is a way to change their behavior to adjust certainly the maligned behavior and to make it more compatible with our interests. certainly removal of a regime is a tactic, but usually comes with a lot bigger consequences, particularly when you don't know what's going to ycome in the place of what you've already known. >> as we said, you worked in the intel world, the spy world for decades. how difficult do you think it's