is better positioned for getting independent votes than governor perry might be. although governor perry has a very strong economic record in texas. >> well, i agree. i think that's right. look, i think the thing you have to remember about this is very critical as perry embarks upon this series of debates and appearances in which we will see him at some length and under some stress, really, for the first time, we'll find out whether this emerging portrayal of him as sort of a freak candidate is -- will hold up. i'm not sure it will. if you have seen him in recent days, bill, on the news, on our channel i saw him for a while yesterday talking about the fire damage in texas, which as you know has been quite severe, and he came across in those interviews as a calm, reasonable, knowledgeable, and sensible and serious man. he looked like the state chief executive and knew what he was talking about and was, you know, deeply involved in the business of his state. that image emerges.