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we're seeing, right, because the white house itself, whether it's from the campaign or karine jean-pierre from the podium. there are political reasons as well as the white house wants to continue to emphasize this fire wall between the president and the justice department. they don't want the perception of interfering or being seen as interfering in what the justice department is doing in this case. the first lady responding to this as a mother, a grandmother, what republicans are doing is cruel and having an effect on him. that is what we have consistently seen, sort of a difference between the personal view of the president and the first lady expressing support and admiration, love for their son and the way in which he has rebuilt his life. the campaign and the white house itself wanting to keep arm's length from all of this, katy. >> mike memoli, thank you very much. south africa takes israel to court in the hague. what happens if the panel of